air to coils front

['cuda]

My rears are fairly new I was curious if anyone has just converted the front over to coils? Just wondering what I'm in store for. I'm finally tired of the surprises the air suspension gives me from time to time.

[84mark]

we here generally recommend getting to know your air ride system better, so as to not fear it...a working system really only asks for basic operational observation and usually gives plenty of notice when something needs attention...

you would need to obtain different control arms, for one thing....

['cuda]

Well I know it just fine, I don't fear it, I'm just tired of screwing with 20 year old electric and rubber components. I was hoping someone that has used one of the coversion kits that uses the factory control arms could tell me what they thought of them once they were installed. How it effects ride height, quality, handling, etc. It's one thing after another with the air ride. After I replace the front bags it will be solenoids, then a dryer, then a compressor, then it will be....

[ekooke]

quote:Originally posted by 'cuda:
Well I know it just fine, I don't fear it, I'm just tired of screwing with 20 year old electric and rubber components. I was hoping someone that has used one of the coversion kits that uses the factory control arms could tell me what they thought of them once they were installed. How it effects ride height, quality, handling, etc. It's one thing after another with the air ride. After I replace the front bags it will be solenoids, then a dryer, then a compressor, then it will be....

With an air suspension, it's all about TIMELY maintenance. If the air springs are leaking, this will wear out the compressor and water-saturate the dryer. The life of the air springs themselves is about 8-10 years or say, 100,000 miles; I've had to replace metal coil springs somewhere around that mileage, because they were worn and the car sagged. As far as solenoids go, they will usually last the life of the car; there are still 1984 Marks & Contis running around with the original solenoids. The Mark VII was designed from the ground up with an air suspension, so doing a retrofit to metal coil springs could make any perceived suspension problems worse. If I didn't like AS, I'd just buy a mid-80s Thunderbird and be done with it.

[84mark]

it isn't a matter of air-ride componentry being '20 years old', and thus presumably unreliable...the 'wear' components are essentially the bags and the compressor/dryer...and the replacement cycle on those is very long...as long as you have good bags and compressor unit, all you really need is a little 'system smarts' to respond to any glitch that might arise...

i hear it all the time here that bags are a bad deal because they keep needing replacement...i have found that to be completely unfounded...my 86 is now in need of rear bags (drops overnight), just as my 84 was...however, i have never had to replace front bags on these cars...if these were coil-sprung cars with this much mileage, i'd have already had to replace at least the fronts, if not the rears as well...

i can tell you which i'd rather deal with...

[techsent]

'cuda,

I just bought the full conversion kit last week >>> http://www.strutmasters.com/lincoln/mark-7.htm

for my 91. The mech at the station is doing the job right now. As soon as I get it back I'll post my findings on how it went, ride height etc...

btw, I completely understand your frustration. I bought this car just over a year ago and never had any problems. one day, I came outside and the front end was on the ground. The fix for me (temporarily) was to pull/push the 4 wires feeding into the compressor (wasn't sure which ones were for the front). fired up the car and the front raised but way to high. kept playing with the wires and finally got it to level with the rear. a couple weeks later the rear dropped too. After getting that back up I decided to spring for the conversion kit.

Techsent

[ October 27, 2005: Message edited by: techsent ]

[84mark]

perhaps a little more time spent here would have made a difference for you

[techsent]

84mark,

I read ya. My decision to go coil was directly related to attempting to eliminate a re-occurring negative in my life as quickly as possible. That's been my goal lately is too bypass as many negatives as possible as being a single dad with a 14 yr old teenage boy, it's my main focus. God help me! smile.gif

[Desert Stallion]

quote:Originally posted by 84mark:
perhaps a little more time spent here would have made a difference for you

Perhaps not. tongue.gif Look how long I've been here, and every car I've owned for more than a month that had air suspension ended up with coil springs. :D

Air suspension is for everybody, and unforunately there are those on board here that are of the 'elitest' crowd that believes it's not a Lincoln if it doesn't have air bags.

Whatever. :rolleyes:

I'm not a fan of the 'kits' out there for the VII because I don't like how they bandaid the spring perches for use with the stock components.

My conversion went the full 9 yards with Mustang k-member, control arms front and modified stock arms rear, and welded in rear perches using SN95 Mustang GT springs in front and Fox T-Bird springs rear for the added ride height over the Fox3 cars.

Total cost in parts including new MM c/c plates and new KYB's front and rear was well under $300.

The end result was a car that sits at just about the perfect height, not too low, not like a 4x4, rides as well as my '86 LSC did without the wallow of the air suspension, a little stiffer than the stock Bill Blass suspension, handles much better even with the slow-ratio rack and pencil thin swaybars still in place, and will NEVER EVER be sitting on its shocks when I come out to it in the morning.

In your situation, as long as you leave the ride height sensors locked in position where they read proper ride height, then the suspension computer is happy and will keep the rears filled up without throwing codes or whatever.

Just me, but it's your car, do what you want with it.

[pro-five-oh]

quote:Originally posted by Desert Stallion:
My conversion went the full 9 yards with Mustang k-member, control arms front and modified stock arms rear, and welded in rear perches using SN95 Mustang GT springs in front and Fox T-Bird springs rear for the added ride height over the Fox3 cars.

That's the only way to do it.

Course by that time most of us would just prefer to replace a few parts and get the air suspension back in shape. tongue.gif

['cuda]

I talked to strutmasters today and asked a few questions and am happy with the answers so I'm going to go ahead and order a kit for the front and probably replace the struts while I'm up there. After I get it all installed I'll post my opinion on the board. Thanks for everyone's input.
quote:Originally posted by techsent:
'cuda,

I just bought the full conversion kit last week >>> http://www.strutmasters.com/lincoln/mark-7.htm

for my 91. The mech at the station is doing the job right now. As soon as I get it back I'll post my findings on how it went, ride height etc...

btw, I completely understand your frustration. I bought this car just over a year ago and never had any problems. one day, I came outside and the front end was on the ground. The fix for me (temporarily) was to pull/push the 4 wires feeding into the compressor (wasn't sure which ones were for the front). fired up the car and the front raised but way to high. kept playing with the wires and finally got it to level with the rear. a couple weeks later the rear dropped too. After getting that back up I decided to spring for the conversion kit.

Techsent

[ October 27, 2005: Message edited by: techsent ]

[Nick]

If I went with the amount of work DS put in, I'd spend the small additional time to modify the K member and pick up points to get better suspension geometry. An older Continental/SVO K member would be better for track width I'd bet.

But I second Pro's thoughts. I've heard enough bad stories that I question these companies' overall quality control and design ability. I almost converted to not have to deal with the system, but once I did a little reading on the system, it's the last thing I worry about. Repairs last maybe an hour or so and can be done with simple hand tools. Once the the wear items like springs and compressor are set, you don't have to worry about it. It's extremely reliable for so seemingly complex a system. In reality even its operation is pretty basic.

Good luck.

[84mark]

well desertstud, you make my case- haste and air-ride do not mix....

and frankly, these are no longer 'fast' cars, in late-model terms of dealer-service taken for granted...

ok, so start with eliminating the air-ride...where from there? these cars are loaded with funky, picky systems...

couple ways to go with these cars- one, full custom, where you're basically just using the platform and inventing from there, and stock, within which the air-ride is hardly the worst offender, and indeed the real business card for these cars...

[ October 28, 2005: Message edited by: 84mark ]

[ October 28, 2005: Message edited by: 84mark ]

[Kit Sullivan]

A Mark VII without it's air suspension and coild instead may seem like a Mark, but its missing 'something' that gives it that unique Mark-ness.
I mean, Pam Anderson without her implants would still be a great looking chick...but she would'nt be 'Pam Anderson', you know?

Don't get rid of your Lincoln's implants!

[Desert Stallion]

Ugh, I wouldn't touch Pam Anderson with a 10' pole, with or without implants. Maybe twenty years ago, except of course I'd have been 2 years old at the time...

I digress. Nick, that's what I did. I relocated the engine back and moved the k-member forward. Amazed myself with that one, not for the faint of heart.

Again, it's your car '84, don't let someone else tell you anything you do to your car is wrong. Hell, I'm guilty of it too. I gave Cason crap for neons under his Conti. But you know what? That's what he likes, it's his car, and he made it more his own. Props to anyone that steps out on their own to make their car the way they want.

Just make sure and do it right. And by right I mean that if you're going to flog the crap out of your car, using a kit with plastic-ish spring perches and no welded in components just isn't going to cut it, not for long.

And these cars look real silly driving along with one corner bottomed out on the shock because the spring is now buried in your trunk after the perch gave way.

[LJS30]

Here we go again with those who seem intent on debating the whole "I LOVE AIR SUSPENSION" vs the more practical "COILS WORK FINE" members. Fact is I myself switched to coils and have never been happier. I no longer have to focus on that troublesome part of my ride, which is great. Now I can think about upgrading my engine, transmission, stereo system, rear end, abs system, etc...... Plus it rides just the same as it did before. :D

[84mark]

it's not elitism...air suspension is a technology, not a religion or country club...and i was as nonplussed as anyone with my 84, like *WHAT THE HELL IS THIS???*....but once oriented, wow, what is this??

and that's what i'm reading here, basically, A.D.D...i've got my lsc, now don't bother me.....

[farmall]

I just put the spring conversion in my 88 BB,could'nt be happier.ride height is perfect,and it handles better than it ever did.super easy to install.dont hesitate.get rid of your air bag nightmare..

['cuda]

I can't wait to install these. Hurry up and deliver the parts UPS man.

[Desert Stallion]

quote:Originally posted by 'cuda:
I can't wait to install these. Hurry up and deliver the parts UPS man.

It'll be like Christmas... on Halloween! :eek: :D

[techsent]

conversion completed and very pleased with the outcome....

1. got the car back and for the first couple of days the ride height was too high.
2. after the weekend and lots of driving the springs settled down and now the ride height (front/back) has leveled to approx 4-5 inches from the top of the wheels.
3. The handling is now the same as it was before the conversion.

*The one thing I love about this car is being able to make a quick turn (going 35 + mph) without even needing to brake. It's awesome!!!

[ November 02, 2005: Message edited by: techsent ]

[Nick]

I can say the same about the sharp handling response in my air sprung car though. :D

To each his own, but it is important to note that there are options and one should not dive into a choice blindly.

[Desert Stallion]

quote:Originally posted by Nick:
... but it is important to note that there are options...


Hence why we keep up with 'coil springs as an option' to the overwhelming 'air suspension forever' mentality. (runs and hides from Nick) :D

[Nick]

quote:Originally posted by Desert Stallion:



Hence why we keep up with 'coil springs as an option' to the overwhelming 'air suspension forever' mentality. (runs and hides from Nick) :D

I'm just going to prove I can do it better for about as much. :D

Really, I'm just against conversion without research and understanding, which also seems to apply for the ABS, the SRS, and maybe even fuel injection. :eek: Now I gone and pissed off someone from every group. tongue.gif

[LJS30]

I just hate the mentality that a Mark 7 absolutely HAS to have air bags in order to be "pure". Some guys on this site act like having air bags is the equivalent to having blonde hair and blue eyes, some kind of master race of cars or something.

[cason1]

quote:Originally posted by Desert Stallion:
Hell, I'm guilty of it too. I gave Cason crap for neons under his Conti. But you know what? That's what he likes, it's his car, and he made it more his own. Props to anyone that steps out on their own to make their car the way they want.


Well, I don't know if I should thank you for giving me props or throw a hissy fit because you gave me crap about it. ;)

Oh yeah, It ain't a Conti!! :D Mine's right wheel drive in more than one sense. RWD and non trac-locked rear means just the right wheel spins.

I like Lincolns because of all the little toys they have on them. I consider the air suspension another "toy" that Lincolns have. I turned down several Towncars simply because the air suspension had been abandoned for coil springs in the rear. That is one of the toys I really want in a Lincoln. If you go to all the trouble to do the conversion as DS did then I have to respect that it was done properly but I wouldn't buy one of the "conversion" kits and slap on and go as someone else said for fear of one corner sitting on the ground after the spring goes through the floor after coming off the perch. Glad you like yours though.

[ November 03, 2005: Message edited by: cason1 ]

['cuda]

Finished the install last night, and went for an extended test drive this morning. I like the coils. I also installed a fresh set of struts while I was in there.
I managed to worke an end link loose near the end of the drive, don't know the reason. I guess I'll just replace it. It doesn't want to tighten up anymore and the bushings on mine are pretty worn. It's always something.

[REDNECKLINCOLN84]

can i put struts on the front of a lincoln markvII and leave the air ride in the back?

what would cause the car to choke off after it wormed up?

[Bill's89LSC]

Mark VII's had both struts and air springs on the front.

Need more info on your other problem.

Bill

['cuda]

quote:Originally posted by REDNECKLINCOLN84:
can i put struts on the front of a lincoln markvII and leave the air ride in the back?

what would cause the car to choke off after it wormed up?

If you mean putting coils on the front and leaving the rear with air springs then yes you can. I did.