mk7 spindles too big for t-bird stud...?

[84mark]

converting an 83 t-bird to mark 7 spindles/rotors/brakes....the ball joint stud in the t-bird is too narrow to fit to the mk7 spindle...what's the answer? does the mk7 ball joint fit the t-bird? i always heard you could do this conversion.......?

[Desert Stallion]

Not with the '83 T-Bird you can't. You need to either find spacers for the balljoints, have them made which I can supply a diagram with specs for the spacers as this used to be a cheap road race upgrade for Mustang's, or you need to use a control arm modified with the larger balljoint.

Now, your other option is to convert to '87+ V8 Mustang spindles, which should fit that balljoint, though you may need the newer Mustang control arms as well, and the Mark VII rotors/brakes bolt right on to the Mustang spindle.

[84mark]

so you're saying the mustang spindle 'should' fit the smaller t-bird balljoint stud, and if it does, then i'm good, but if it doesn't, THEN i need the whole arm with (bigger) joint...?

and, the 87-93 mustang spindle takes the same rotor and caliper as mark7...?

[ July 08, 2005: Message edited by: 84mark ]

[pro-five-oh]

Not sure if it makes a difference, but the control arm of the Mark is over an 1" longer than the 83-86 Bird...I'd recommend looking at 87-88 Tbird control arms and see if they bolt up directly. I *think* they do, a few Bird guys have put 5-lug (Mark VII) brakes on their 87-88 models using Mark VII spindles easily.

[SilverFox]

Mustang front suspension is dirrect bolt on to that balljoint - MarkVII/svo has the most F'ed up front end of them all.

I have done so much research on MarkVII suspension it isn't funny. I have narrowed down the secrets to the SN95 swap on the markvii, though have not attempted it yet. But SouthernMDLSC on FvC has - we have conversed many times.

Oh...and you are crazy for not thinking of SN95 stuff anyhow - WAY better. Hope to see you go this rout.

[ July 08, 2005: Message edited by: SilverFox ]

[84mark]

i note that the arms on the mark are about an inch longer...whether that would be much of a problem, don't know, however, the mark arm clearly would not accomodate a coil spring......how do they do those coil conversions???

went to the wrecker yeaterday and they said they didn't have anything as old as 87-93 stang....

what's 'sn-95'?

oh, well...off to try to fogure something out :shrug:

[Desert Stallion]

SN95 refers to the '94+ Mustang.

The Mark control arms, just like the T-Bird and '96+ Mustang control arms, are 3/4" longer than a '87-'93 Mustang. However, something else to consider is that suspension geometry changed over the years, and will it work with your application.

My spring conversion was done with '96 control arms and spindles and brakes, and a '90 Mustang k-member, and the rear was all done by welding steel pipe in place in the perches.

[84mark]

right...obviously you would have to change cont. arms to do a mark spring conversion...the amount of change/work would certainly make me averse to any such conversion- just fixing up the air ride would seem a picnic by comparison....

ok, i see some mustang spindles on ebay...one dude is selling several sets with rotor included, described as '86-93, these are the big ones'...but they're 4-lug...do these still take the mark7 rotors/calipers? did they make both 4 and 5 lug 'large' rotors...?

[Desert Stallion]

Mark VII rotors bolt right onto V8 Mustang spindles of that vintage. Same with the calipers.

[84mark]

i guess my specific question would be like this: the two rotor sizes are 10", as stock on my 83 bird, and 11", as on the mark...so how do the lug patterns relate to the rotor size, if at all? was either the 10" or the 11" rotor (or both) made both ways- 4 lug AND five lug types of the same rotor size? Are there 4-lug 11" rotors?

if so, would such a 4-lug (11") rotor fit to a mark spindle/caliper? i would have to presume so if the reverse would be true, that you could swap a 5-lug mark rotor for the 4-lug ones as shown on those '86-93' spindles......???

[Desert Stallion]

The '87-'93 4-lug V8 Mustang's have 11" rotors, while the 4-banger Stang's have 10", just as the pre-'86 V8 cars have 10" rotors like your T-Bird.

The '87-'93 V8 Mustang spindles will be a direct replacement for the Mark VII spindles... like I've said several times, in this post, over and over again.

[84mark]

well, now i've apparently got YOU to saying it wrong- the 'v8' mustang spindles (at least the '87-93' v8 mustang spindles) will be a direct replacement for 't-bird' (pre-87) spindles, not mark, because they fit to the smaller ball-stud...

however, though they won't bolt to a mark, the mark rotor/caliper bolts to THEM...

that ebay seller was pitching his item (pair stang spindles w/ 4-bolt rotors) to the idea of upgrading to the bigger brakes while staying with same (4 bolt) wheels...i guess i thought 4-bolt always meant the smaller brakes...apparently not...however, that does seem to mean you could put that 4 bolt rotor right onto a mark spindle....if for any reason one would want to...

dare i ask the next question- will the 84 mark disc-brake axle direct-replace the 83 bird's?

[Desert Stallion]

Ya' know what...... !@*&@*!(#&(*!&@#*&#!*(@&(*!@&(*&!#(*@&(!*&@(*&(!*&@ !!!!!!!! :eek:


So there! tongue.gif


:D


No, the VII's axle is not a direct replacement. The VII's axle is about 1/2" wider PER SIDE than the T-Bird's, and about 1.25" wider PER SIDE than the Fox Mustang's.

Will it work though? Sure. With stockish-sized tires, no problems. With wider tires, you may need to massage the fender wells a bit with a big hammer, but anyway, it will work.

Something else to consider is that the '84 Mark still has a 7.5" rear end, not the 8.8" of the later cars.

[84mark]

well, of course the 83 bird is far from the 8.8...the 7.5 in my opinion is fine for 'normal' motors and driving...i've put a lot of miles on several of them with nary any issue...

i was aware of the increased track width; if it's just a half inch per side, that should be cool...just looking out for any 'whoops!' factor like i had this week when the spindles didn't fit :( :mad:

[Desert Stallion]

The only physical difference that springs to mind is that the Mark VII lower control arm mounts on the axle assembly are slightly lower than on Fox Mustang's, not sure about the T-Bird's. This is actually good from a performance point of view as it helps with weight transfer and center of gravity. and shouldn't affect ride height any, I don't think. It's been a while since I was thinking about Fox suspensions on a regular basis, so I may be way off on the ride height thing.

[84mark]

i do recall that a popular stang mod was swapping in altered-geometry trailing arms....

[SilverFox]

Okay let start again with this info.

1) early t-bird rotors/calipers/spindle are same as small 4 bolt mustang
2) 87-93 had 11" rotors and 60mm calipers, not upgraded spindles - dirrect bolt on
3) 5 lug is only found on MarkVII/ranger rotors and will bolt onto your OEM spindles...as will the MarkVII 73mm calipers. This is the best/biggest FORD type upgrade you can do with dirrect bolt ons.
4) You could upgrade to SN95 (94+) mustang spindles and get 5 lug, better brakes, better rotors, better steering geometry, more wheel options and larger brake upgrade options. This is also a dirrect bolt on with only mods needed are new struts/tierods/brake lines. IMHO this is what you would want to do. Unless you wanted cheap brake upgrade/5 lug use MarkVII stuff with less hassle.

ANything Fox mustang is not considered an upgrade IMHO since there is better stuff you can get for the same price - like MarkVII stuff.

[84mark]

but, 'mark 7 stuff' doesn't fit, in the case of the spindles...you have to use 'fox mustang' or else the newer route you also detail...

SOME pre-'94 mustangs such as LX came with 5 lug hubs, or am i wrong on that?

you're saying that the mk7 calipers will fit the 'larger' stang spindles...but you weren't clear on the rotor- is the mk7 rotor the same and/or, does it fit to the stang spindle???

[Desert Stallion]

Jeeze... :rolleyes:

Okay, '87-'93 Mustang's were ALL 4-lug, regardless of GT/LX, V8/4-banger. The ONLY 5-lug Fox Mustang's were the SVO/Saleen and the '93 Cobra R.

Mark VII rotors DIRECTLY FIT the V8 Fox spindles.

Mark VII brakes DIRECTLY FIT the V8 Fox spindles.

[ July 11, 2005: Message edited by: Desert Stallion ]

[84mark]

cool...learn something every day ;)

you just have to be brazen enough to ask

[ July 11, 2005: Message edited by: 84mark ]

[Desert Stallion]

No problem man. It's good practice to repeat myself over and over. I get a lot of students like that. ;)

[84mark]

won set of 'GT' spindles on ebay tonight...they had been sitting there with a $20 start and, surprisingly, no bids...i typically bid once (my max) as late as possible, but had to take off about an hour before the end...i bid $43 and left...came back, i won at $36...obviously someone else was sitting on them as well, luckily i won smile.gif

but now it'll take a couple weeks to 'get'.....

[SilverFox]

Thats to bad....you really should have gone SN95. But what have will work, now you need to find some markVII stuff.

[84mark]

i have a complete (84) parts car...this 83 t-bird is a work car; i'm a satellite tv dealer...it has a ladder attached to the roof...just looking for better brakes, 5-lug fit, nothing fancy (or $$$)...

[SilverFox]

I MUST SEE PICS! SOunds funny.

[84mark]

oh, it's a riot...i'll see if i can find my camera

[hotrod88lsc]

As a member of the Thunderbird and Cougar Club of America, aka TCCOA. I too must see a picture of this abomination of the first aerobird. Just kidding i wanna see pics too LOL.

[Nick]

Pull wheels off the Mark for the 'bird or use Mark wheels. SN95 Mustang stuff for the most part fits too.