I want to start a "Lobby "group

[Bob Hubbard]

To begin with, I was born and raised in this great country and, I feel I am as patriotic as any one else, but, I have had it with fireworks on the fourth of july.
To begin with, fireworks here in Los Angeles are banned unless they are the "safe and sound" variety.
Illegal fireworks are the rule rather than the exception.
One only has to drive ten minutes to a neighboring town or city to purchase all the fireworks they want.
Explosions start here in Los Angeles during the last week of june and continue for two weeks into july.
(NOT THE LEGAL KIND)
On the night of the fourth, it started out in the street at sunset, and continued till 1am.
The air looked like fog, and the smell was obnoxious.
My poor Shepherd was going crazy with all the noise.
I keep him in the house, all windows and doors shut , and still the noise was unbearable.
I have nothing agains the professional fireworks like those put on at the rose bowl.
They last about 1/2 hour, and that is the end of them.
Last night alone, The fire department had an unprecedented 570 fires to contain between the hours of 9 pm and 1am.
All due to illegal fireworks.
The lobby group I want to start will be made up of others like myself who are fed up with these illegal fireworks.
The purpose would be to lobby for a election proposition banning all fireworks in the state except for professional pyrotechnics.
Stiff fines of $1000.00 for a first offense, and graduated penalties, including jail time for offenders.
If any California residents on this board are interested, please send me an email.
As I am writing this, presently the fire department is battling a blase, believed to have been started by fireworks by some kids, in the city of Yorba Linda.
To date, over 900 acres have burned.
This bullshit has to be stopped.enough is enough.
Fireworks being set off in neighborhoods has absolutely nothing to do with this country's birthday.
It has to do with a bunch of young punks raising hell

[Dereck]

Hi Bob Hubbard

Sorry Bob but I am going to have to fight your lobby group every inch of the way.

I enjoy fireworks and every year on firework day (November 5th here) I set off a couple of thousand dollars worth of fireworks, I also go to organised displays and can hardley get enough on them.

It is not the fireworks that are the problem but the brain dead morons that mis-use them.

Whatever happened to "The land of the free"? if you start banning everything because you dissaprove of it that's just the thin end of the wedge, where do you stop? I dislike the pickle in a McDonalds burger should that also be banned? I do not like soccer shall we ban it? Someone else might think an old red Lincoln is a hideous creation, shall we ban red Lincolns as well?

I am affraid I also take issue with your statement, "My poor Shepherd was going crazy with all the noise" you dog has learnt to be affraid from your or a previous owner training him to be affraid. Gun dogs are trained not to be affraid of load noises as are police horses. your dog could also be trained to ignore the bangs of fireworks.

However I do think that there should be HEAVY penalties for anyone that mis-uses fireworks, such as by setting them of in the street or on any land they do not have the permission of the land owner, also perhaps the times that fireworks are set of could be restricted to say, not before 9am or after 11pm.

Many people enjoy fireworks and to ban them because a few people dissaprove would be an insult to all those that have died and are still dying to give us the freedoms that we all enjoy.

Regards

Dereck

[AceFrehley03]

Sorry Bob, but I too am going to have to stand my ground against said lobby.

Personally, I don't think any firework should be "illegal." M-80s, my personal favorite, are "illegal" per se yet they can still be found, and damn if it isn't fun to decimate an old model car, a beer can, a 2 liter of shaken-up Coca Cola, etc.

Pop-bottle rockets are also illegal now. When I was younger I remember putting them in a glass and then lighting them off. Great fun, for such a simple idea.

Black-cats, ladyfingers, whatever you wish to call them. Roughly an inch long and 1/4" in diameter or so, you all know the ones. I used to take these in the mountains to blow little "tunnels" out of the snow when I was kid. Also illegal.

I agree with Dereck whole heartedly that the fireworks arent the problem, just the stupid dumbsh*ts who misuse them.

I owe my thanks to those people, actually. The fun I had as a child can't be relayed on to my younger brother without the risk of getting in trouble over something so god damn stupid and trivial as a playtime explosive.

Long live dangerous objects!

[AceFrehley03]

While I'm on the soapbox.

quote:Fireworks being set off in neighborhoods has absolutely nothing to do with this country's birthday.
It has to do with a bunch of young punks raising hell.

Isn't that essentially how America came to? A bunch of young "punks" raising hell? Was the Boston Tea Party any more then a bunch of shitheads causing trouble?

Nope.

Welcome to America.

[pro-five-oh]

quote:Originally posted by AceFrehley03:
Isn't that essentially how America came to? A bunch of young "punks" raising hell? Was the Boston Tea Party any more then a bunch of shitheads causing trouble?

Not a fair comparison. Those shitheads were dumping British tea into the bay to make a statement about another country, these shitheads are causing fires, destroying other American's properties who had nothing to do with them...brush fires in CA have really killed insurance rates up there, many people can't even have insurance through my company (Travelers) because of it.

There was a voluntary ban on certain fireworks here in Houston because of our current draught, most vendors complied and I think we had a pretty safe 4th. Except for the one fireworks trailer that caught on fire in some twisted form of poetic justice I guess. smile.gif

Good luck, hopefully a majority of people will see your way and demand action. I'd figure with the number of fires in CA this wouldn't be a big issue to tackle. Too much loss of property!

[ July 06, 2005: Message edited by: pro-five-oh ]

[waldbaro]

I think the fireworks issue is a more of a local issue.

Shooting off fireworks in the Southern California, a densely populated land of wild fires, where whole neighborhood can be wiped out with one spark, should be a felony. In areas where there is plenty of rainfal,l who cares?

The beauty of the US is that you can lobby any cause to your local government and get a vote yea or nea.

[Bob Hubbard]

Dereck, you made some good points but, thankfully in this great country, regardless of stepping on someone's toes, the right to protest and lobby for change is a benefit of being a United States citizen.
If someone hates"old red lincolns", they are entitled to protest and seek justification, just as I intend to do considering fireworks, and their mis-use.
This reminds me of a discussion I had a couple of years ago on the "IWON" site about gun control.
My contention was, and still is,sometimes change is needed to protect society from itself, even though there are those who can't see the forest for the trees.
If the public is in danger from whatever source, perhaps steps need to be taken to alleviate the source, in spite of some being deprived, for the benefit of all.
If enough people who get sick by eating pickles from Mc Donalds, complain, someone will be there to listen and possibly take action against the company.
If enough folks complain about the recent surpreme court decesion concerning eminent domain,the congress will listen , and then act.
Nothing ever gets done by one complaining and taking a back seat.
Those in the forefront are the ones that will be listened too.
Bob.

[Steve Moran]

Well I tried to stay out of it.
I agree with what you are saying about if we see a change is needed we should be able to voice our concern, that is a non-issue.

What I disagree with is the fact that a small group of people have any right to say they know what is best for the public as a whole, if that where so then you could figure whom ever has enough money to purchase the ear of the law givers will ultimately be the ones who direct our lives.

I am deathly allergic to raw tomatoes if I forget to ask to not have them placed on my burger that is my fault, if I don't like fireworks (and I don't) then I turn the TV up a little louder or find something to do away from my home. If my home burns down then my insurance company and the little freak that shot off fireworks will be purchasing me a new one.
If I wanted to tie up the state government with every law I felt was worth trying to have enacted then I would be slowing down the process for other worth while laws to be argued and voted or vetoed upon.
I live in a neighborhood that people dream of, cars parked in the street with the keys in them all night long not many people lock there homes very few fences separate yards kids play in the evenings with laughter abundant.
But I hate dogs in my yard leaving dog poop on my lawn, It angers me when my neighbor mows his lawn and spews grass clippings on my yard, I loath the fact that one of my neighbors dogs stomped on my newly planted lawn earlier this year because he didn’t stay in his yard.
I do like the fact that my same neighbor will look after my stuff when I am gone, I love the fact my very attractive neighbor sunbaths (no fences) and that we can all wave at each other when we are mowing our yards.
We had a salty old prick in the neighbor hood, when he went on vacation someone sprayed GO AWAY! in his lawn with grass killer, needless to say it was not long and he was gone. I do not nor do I wish to ever live in seclusion on an island.

Lastly I was a young lad and I enjoyed playing with fireworks I caused a lawn to start on fire but I stayed and put it out. I am sure as a young man you enjoyed fireworks as much as anyone dose now days. I can say with out any question by judging my own children and the younger people on this forum (ace not included……J/K) that they make people just as smart now as they did when I was a child and I am sure I was no less inept as my parents where all the way up the line. If things happen and fires start or people’s fingers get injured then that is good, “The weaker of the species……”and all that.
This world doesn’t have to be a pickleless, tomatoless, place we just need to remember we don’t like them and to speak up about our displeasures at the drive-up window and not squelch other peoples dislikes because on a few days to two weeks out of a year we are a little uncomfortable.

[ July 06, 2005: Message edited by: Steve Moran ]

[Bob Hubbard]

Points well taken and, you certainly have the right to your opinions
Bob.

[Silver Cobra]

Kinda reminds me of guns. Both are deadly in the wrong hands. Both are used to kill and both are held by idiots who really don't give a crap. I really have nothing to say but parallels can be drawn for the two.

[Bob Hubbard]

Steve, your point is well taken but I think, mis-understood.
I get the feeling you feel "a small group of people are trying to tell the majority how to live".
You have it wrong my friend.
What we need to do , as a group is get out in the public arena and get folks to listen to our views.
If we are fortunate to get enough signatures for a proposition on the voting ballot, the people will make the final decesion.
Our duty is to make the public aware.
Of cource, our goal is to be successful, and without commitment, we won't even get the initiative off the ground.

[Steve Moran]

quote:Originally posted by Bob Hubbard:
Steve, your point is well taken but I think, mis-understood.
I get the feeling you feel "a small group of people are trying to tell the majority how to live".
You have it wrong my friend.
What we need to do , as a group is get out in the public arena and get folks to listen to our views.
If we are fortunate to get enough signatures for a proposition on the voting ballot, the people will make the final decesion.
Our duty is to make the public aware.
Of cource, our goal is to be successful, and without commitment, we won't even get the initiative off the ground.


That was my first point.

And thank you for keeping this civil. I enjoy a little back and forth discussion unless there is name calling then it becomes infantile.
But any proposition started will be a small group.

I will be the first to admire you for not sitting back and griping about something that discomforts you.
In my mind if it is only a once a year event I guess for the greater good I would not enact new laws, we as a society have enough of them and it seems as though more and more rights are taken away everyday, I just would expect the public authorities to enforce the laws in place.
If you report a breach of the law and someone gets hurt or property is damaged then a write-up in the paper or a phone call to the Chief of police stating how you tried to avoid the situation but where ignored should do the trick.
I guess I just hate to see more of our “Liberties” be taken away these days and this is a big one as far as I am concerned, only because it is the first of the small ones and I hate to see that ball start rolling.

[Matthew]

quote:Originally posted by Dereck:
I am affraid I also take issue with your statement, "My poor Shepherd was going crazy with all the noise" you dog has learnt to be affraid from your or a previous owner training him to be affraid. Gun dogs are trained not to be affraid of load noises as are police horses. your dog could also be trained to ignore the bangs of fireworks.

Dereck-

For what it's worth my boss has always had to give his dog sedatives during thunderstorms or fireworks.

Sadly, this year during the holiday celebration, despite being medicated and shut in the house, the fireworks gave him a heart attack and he died.

[Michael VII LSC/SE]

Well I agree to some extent with all of you. Nice job Derreck! But another law? I think we have enough. Unless you can produce a majority to follow an idea I have no interest in seeing any more behaviour modification laws on the books. If you want to make a change then make "Social Responsibility" and required subject for graduation from High School.
Since so many want to rely on the "Govenment to solve the issue start by teaching our youngsters how to read. Then maybe they will take an interest and read all the laws available to fine or incarcerate a person already. :rolleyes:

We already had the major outline and intent of the law displayed in our schools and halls of Justice, till some minor representation uses the law to make us pull down public displays of the Ten Commandments in Govenment buildings. Teach the Ten Commandments, (or a collection of all Historical and Religious Laws), as outlined in the "Golden Rule" add a little Social Responsibility, follow up with Basic Gun Safety, and I bet the few inconsiderate fireworks poppers would easily be rounded up next 4th of July season.

[Bob Hubbard]

quote:Originally posted by Matthew:


Dereck-

For what it's worth my boss has always had to give his dog sedatives during thunderstorms or fireworks.

Sadly, this year during the holiday celebration, despite being medicated and shut in the house, the fireworks gave him a heart attack and he died.

Matt, This really troubled me, for a couple of reasons.
First, I love animals, especially dogs and are involved in an animal rights group here in Los Angeles and secondly, My shepherd has a heart murmer which was discovered a month ago.
The vet has told me to limit his strenuos activity and keep him calm.
He can't be given a sedative because of the heart murmer, because beating at an irregular rate, which is what a heart murmer is, he could also suffer a heart attack.
Needless to say, the fireworks was more than just a pain to have to listen too.
I was extremely worried about his well being so, this lobby to ban fireworks is much more than a human issue.

[Vitas]

quote:Originally posted by Bob Hubbard:
Needless to say, the fireworks was more than just a pain to have to listen too.
I was extremely worried about his well being so, this lobby to ban fireworks is much more than a human issue.

So it is a dog issue?

[2manymarks]

Can't add anything to what Steve has said so well. I'm in agreement with him.

[wingnut351]

What does your dog do during thunder storms?
My cat hides in the bathroom behind the sink; sometimes hours before the storm actually hits. I don't know how she knows it's coming.
I feel sorry for your dog but I do enjoy fireworks. I make my own but thats going to stop when I run out of powder. (Homeland Security will come to visit if I order more)
The United States has become "the land of the free & the home brave" as long as you have a permit!

[Bob Hubbard]

My Shepherd is fine with thunder and other noises.
The three things that really bother him are gunfire, fireworks and this one really troubles him, the sound of police helicopters.
He is fine with low flying planes, jets and all other helicopters.
For some reason I think the police copters have a distinct sound that really frightens him.
Vitas, to answer your question, it isn't a "dog" issue, it is a nuisence issue.

[Vitas]

quote:Originally posted by Bob Hubbard:

The three things that really bother him are gunfire, fireworks and this one really troubles him, the sound of police helicopters....
Vitas, to answer your question, it isn't a "dog" issue, it is a nuisence issue.

So you would like the entire State of California to fashion their laws around what bothers your dog.

That is an unreasonable request.

Here in Massachusetts all fireworks are illegal. But the day or so before and after July 4th, the Police look the other way.
It is a matter of common sense.

[eshtex]

Bob,

With all due respect, you should drop this thread. Everyone has heard your issue on fireworks and I think the responses have been very polite. Drive forward with your proposition, but if this forum is any representation of your local community, you'll soon realize what you're up against.
Mixed reviews on both sides no doubt.
I, and most of us, did not choose to live in LA. All of us know if you live in LA you are going to be dealing with fireworks, gang activity, police choppers, etc. That's why I (myself) would never consider your area (no disrespect intended). Although your interest may be a worthy one, (and I commend your willingness to pursue) and lead to community happiness, I'm not so certain this particular forum is going to get you there in terms of swaying the majority. Like was said before, it's at least nice to hear someone want to change something rather than complaining. However, I think you're up against a difficult challenge. Good luck in your quest.

[ July 09, 2005: Message edited by: eshtex ]

[ July 09, 2005: Message edited by: eshtex ]

[Bob Hubbard]

Thanks.
Bob

[Arron]

I understand why you do not like them, many folks do not like loud "noise." For me it is the stuff coming out of most of the radios of the younger folks in this country right now. And the really terrible exhaust systems that sound like the car is a cross between a Formula One car and one without a timing system. What you fail to realise the same with firearms is that not every place in this country has the benefit of having the peace officers right down the street. I grew up in a farming county and we had almost no cases of firearm related "murder" at least none that I can remember and most of the folks in the county have a loaded firearm somewhere in their immediate area; home or outbuilding and or vehicle. You kind of need it just like a computer repair place needs an osciliscope. Why is that the areas that have all of the firearm restcrictions are the worst when it comes to violence where a firearm was used? This is not really about firearms but you made the connection somewhere up above and unfortunately when things happen in California they happen to the rest of the country if for no other reason than our law makers what to be considered "progressively minded." As was said before it is time to start teaching "responsibility" in school and not victimization. And that is why I live where I do, not in some really big Metropolis(?). Sometimes you just need the solitude of being in the woods and around here we are getting alot of cougars and I am not strong enough to fight one of those off. So I will have my 10mm with me as is accorded to me by way of two things; the Second Amendmant and my Iowa non-professional permit to carry concealed weapons. A few years go a guy across the street was setting off bottle rockets which I do really enjoy at some ungodly hour. I just yelled over to them that some people around here did have to go to work in the morning and that was the end of it for the night. Sorry but your ban just is not going to work and that is what this country was born with; explosions and gunfire. And those "shitheads" you have refered to were destroying private property, however history has proven them.

[jmueller44]

quote:Originally posted by Steve Moran:
What I disagree with is the fact that a small group of people have any right to say they know what is best for the public as a whole, if that where so then you could figure whom ever has enough money to purchase the ear of the law givers will ultimately be the ones who direct our lives.


It's already so. Anyone with enough money in this country can buy any politician they want. It happens every day.


Bob,

Stick to your guns. When I was a kid, I used to love firecrackers, and became angry when the police threatened to crack down. Then I grew up. It got pretty bad here in Seattle for a while. One year, my wife and I were walking through our neighborhood just after sundown on the 4th. Some jerks were sitting on a second story balcony and throwing explosives down on anyone who walked by. And I don't mean firecrackers. We joined a group of several hundred people at a local viewpoint to watch the profession display on Lake Union. Some other jerks were throwing firecrackers, sparklers, and what have you into the crowd willy nilly. One asshole threw a whole string of firecracker into the crowd. I tried to grab him, but he dissapeared. The police finally succumed to the pressure and things have been relatively quiet for the last few years. If I were in your area, I would join you. Nobody has a right to endanger the lives and property of others just because they are irresponsible.


]

[SWAMP@WORK]

I love fireworks I don't buy them too much anymore since I have this kick ass mortar I had made out of steel round stock. It holds about 4 ounces of black powder and has a 1/8 hole at the bottom for the fuse and you stuff newspaper in the end. Light fuse and BOOM!!! It shakes the ground!! It's wonderful!! It's safer than any firecracker since I cut a long fuse (for obvious reasons). Where I live there is also that fog and the wonderful smell of gunpowder on the forth. We love it!! Just keep those wierd banning parties out in California. Californians seem to love restrictions more than the rest of us!! :D

[Steve Moran]

quote:Originally posted by jmueller44:


It's already so. Anyone with enough money in this country can buy any politician they want. It happens every day.


Bob,

Stick to your guns. When I was a kid, I used to love firecrackers, and became angry when the police threatened to crack down. Then I grew up. It got pretty bad here in Seattle for a while. One year, my wife and I were walking through our neighborhood just after sundown on the 4th. Some jerks were sitting on a second story balcony and throwing explosives down on anyone who walked by. And I don't mean firecrackers. We joined a group of several hundred people at a local viewpoint to watch the profession display on Lake Union. Some other jerks were throwing firecrackers, sparklers, and what have you into the crowd willy nilly. One asshole threw a whole string of firecracker into the crowd. I tried to grab him, but he dissapeared. The police finally succumed to the pressure and things have been relatively quiet for the last few years. If I were in your area, I would join you. Nobody has a right to endanger the lives and property of others just because they are irresponsible.


]


This is a prime example of what I am talking about.
Everything mentioned in here are things that police have control over now, there are public nuisance and reckless endangerment laws on the books already.
What I see is new laws that will be enacted that result in fireworks being taken away from the 1000s of other people that use fireworks within the guidelines of the law, why should they be punished.
This whole conversation could be blown up to say if “X” number of pedestrians get run over in a year then people should not be allowed to drive.
As a society we have enough laws why do we need more? I stated earlier that we don’t need new laws we just need to enforce the ones we have.
Why take the entertainment from away from people, haven’t you ever heard the old saying “Idle hands do the work of the devil.” If you take away peoples entertainment then they will find something new to do, I am thinking you and I most likely will not like what they do next even more then we do now.
If you really want to make a change then give something to people not take away. Arrange it so that if you live in a major city that you have multiple large fireworks displays throughout the aria so everyone can enjoy it and traffic won’t have to back up for hours, or any number of things you can imagine.
Help to do other activities during the course of the year that will give the general public something to do so they won’t be disturbing your peace, heck you could meet some great new people that enrich your life like you never thought could happen.

[94 Mark8 Sizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Bob Hubbard:
Dereck, you made some good points but, thankfully in this great country, regardless of stepping on someone's toes, the right to protest and lobby for change is a benefit of being a United States citizen.
If someone hates"old red lincolns", they are entitled to protest and seek justification, just as I intend to do considering fireworks, and their mis-use.
This reminds me of a discussion I had a couple of years ago on the "IWON" site about gun control.
My contention was, and still is,sometimes change is needed to protect society from itself, even though there are those who can't see the forest for the trees.
If the public is in danger from whatever source, perhaps steps need to be taken to alleviate the source, in spite of some being deprived, for the benefit of all.
If enough people who get sick by eating pickles from Mc Donalds, complain, someone will be there to listen and possibly take action against the company.
If enough folks complain about the recent surpreme court decesion concerning eminent domain,the congress will listen , and then act.
Nothing ever gets done by one complaining and taking a back seat.
Those in the forefront are the ones that will be listened too.
Bob.

I agree! This is a local issue!

[jmueller44]

Steve,

I understand and respect your position. As I see it, part of the problem is that authorities become complacent about enforcing certain laws. Then, all of a sudden the problem grows out of control until 560 homes are burned down and the public becomes outraged enough to start another lobby group to put pressure on police to enforce laws. I don’t agree with the car/pedestrian argument because cars are a necessity today. Fireworks are not. Fireworks are great unit somebody’s home burns down or they get their hand blown off. Then, they become pure nuisance in my opinion. I spent the fourth this year at a family barbecue where adults set off “safe and sane” fireworks for the kids. It was a lot of fun. During the party, my nine-year-old grandson ran up to me and showed me an M5000. It was as big around as my wrist and could easily kill someone. This type of firework is banned in Washington, but is sold on Indian reservations while politicians are given “campaign donations” to look the other way. All politicians care about is being elected. When enough noise comes from a different direction, or when one of their own children is maimed or killed, they will start listening. Seattle has a massive professional fireworks display on Lake Union every year that costs upwards of a half million dollars or more. In addition, there are other professional displays in the area. Still, morons find excuses to do the “devil’s work.” Where do you draw the line? In closing, I believe that this issue is about respect for the safety of others and their property. I believe that any reasonable individual who uses fireworks responsibly would agree. Certainly, the safety of all should take precedence over the actions of a few in something as frivolous and unimportant as setting off fireworks.

Timely side note. At about 1:00 AM this morning, my wife and I were awakened by BOOM, crackle, crackle, crackle. A few minutes later, another BOOM, crackle, crackle, crackle, only this time I could hear stuff hitting our house. A short time later, as I was lying there envisioning hot embers raining down on our roof, a bright spotlight came through our bedroom window. My wife looked out the window and saw that the police had the perp braced. They let him go, but told him that, if they got another call, then he would go to jail.

Go get ‘em, Bob!!

JPM
Seattle, WA

[swampcreek]

This sounds like a job for Joseph Stallin! :mad:

[SWAMP@WORK]

OOOPS! sorry...He was reincarnated....Nancy Palusy!

[jmueller44]

That's Stalin and Pelosi. :D :D

[Michael VII LSC/SE]

quote:Originally posted by jmueller44:
That's Stalin and Pelosi. :D :D


I wonder if she, Pelosi, would notice the misspelling.
;)

[jmueller44]

I doubt that she can read.

[swampcreek]

Yeah, I think my spelling is getting worse and worse...especially on middnighht shhiftt.
I see her and see pure E-V-I-L.

[jmueller44]

quote:Originally posted by swampcreek:
I see her and see pure E-V-I-L.

Yup, Nasty Pelosi. smile.gif