LS battery problems

[andrewusmc]

My friend has an LS that he leaves in a garage in Manhattan for days at a time. The garage guys were telling him they always had to jump the car to get it started. So I put a multi-meter on the battery. 12vdc when car is off, 14 vdc when the car is running. determined battery was bad and got a new one from Ford. about a month went by problem free and he let it sit four days for the long holiday, and again had to jump the car. Has anyone had similar problems. I know corvettes have simliar problems dew to 12 computers always running when the car wasn't on. or is there something else I need to check, like for a load on the system somewhere?

[jack n]

Twelve volts w/o charge and 14 volts charging is normal.

There is almost certainly a load on the battery. First step is to disconnect the battery for a long period. Likely it will be fine. To locate the circuit with a load quickly requires an ammeter in series with one circuit at a time -- could remove a fuse and run the line through the ammeter. The problem load is probably a small fraction of one ampere.

For a simpler but slower test, remove half of the fuses for a long period, to see whether they are on lines causing the drain. FIRST make careful notes of which fuse goes in which circuit -- if the problem persists, return them and remove the other half of the fuses. When you know which half includes the problem, remove half of that half -- etc until the problem line is identified. One problem with this approach is if there is more than one current drain problem, you may not be able to sort it out -- an ammeter is really better (and faster).

[andrewusmc]

Do you know around what a tipical amp draw is on car thats not running?

[purelux]

Have you tried checking the alternator? Also by chance has he installed anything aftermarket on the car. Sometimes when people install they hook it up incorrectly and end up with say a radio or amp that doesn't turn off with the car etc...

[andrewusmc]

No, nothing aftermarket. The alternator seems to be charging correctly. Its probobly going to be a tough one.

[jonota]

I know the spec for older car is 6-10ma draw with the car turned off. I don't believe that Lincoln would make a car that you couldn't leave set for a while.

[jack n]

Presuming a normal parked current drain is 10 milliamps (0.01 amps) and that the average auto battery has 60 ampere hours:

a charged battery should last for
60 hours divided by 0.01 = 6000 hours

and 6000 hours is 250 days.

Now, the starter needs a battery that's not close to discharged, but this calculation suggests that the car should start after a couple months if there's no unusual load (much larger than 10 milliamps).

So it looks like there is indeed an abnormal drain.

[jonota]

Yes, your vehicle should be able to set for quite some time without draining the battery significantly. Purchase a cheap multimeter from any autoparts store, and connect across the battery while the car is parked with key removed and all accessories off. Measure the amperage that the car is drawing. From there you can start removing fuses and seeing if you get a large decrease, or you can go through the car and disconnect electrical connectors (fuse way is shorter, but might not find the problem).

Good luck
Jonota

[Flo Bee]

When my '01 was new, the battery had a bad cell and wouldn't hold much of a charge. It was replaced under warranty.

Something to think about...

[Tman70]

This may sound stupid, but is the car parked on any sort of an angle so the trunk light or underhood light might remain on?

[DocHolliday]

Hate to revive a dead horse but......
You might remember my post about the leaky trunk and how I found it because I had to Jump my battery after a particularly cold night.... well after another cold night the battery was dead.... so took it inm battery had a bad cell, ok 73k on it, got a new battery $141 later and drove off happy. Had the seal on the trunk fixed...no more leak... well the tech thought the H2o and the cold temp was draining the battery because of the moisture and cold temps... well had a cell go bad in the new battery they replaced it under warranty. Woke up today after not driving for 2 days and guess what.... yep so dead the guages wouldnt even do that funny lil dance... so I will take it in this week once again they have already checked the charging system 2x. the checked the elec system and could not find a draw only .01.... so we will see..... any suggestions would be greatly appreciated......

[Desert Stallion]

Doc, in your situation I would be looking closely at the terminals and cables themselves as culprits, especially if they have been exposed to water for any period of time.

Just because the alternator is charging, doesn't mean that charge is reaching the battery.

[eL eS]

I will see if I can find the examples but there have been issues with the radio drawing current well after the car sits and powers down.

IIRC the car continues to draw significant current upto serveral minutes after the key has been removed. It does this to keep some live data at the FEM, REM and PCM just incase you decide to jump back in and start the car.

Folks that I have read about experience the battery discharge ultimately had something wrong with the radio. I will see if I can find some examples.

[eL eS]

the drain diag steps say to let the car sit for 40 minutes before you begin trying to find the component that is drawing the power.

[eL eS]

No factory equipped vehicle should have more than a 30 mA draw (0.030 amp

[DocHolliday]

OK, here comes the most unlikely answer to my personal battery problem you may have ever heard.... if you have read the above get a load of this.... I went on Vaca to the lovely state of SC for a week and left the 2001 ls sport at the shop with an ultimatum of fix it before I get back..... My tech is a good guy who drives an LS himself so I had faith he would get the job done.... after finally getting the Draw on the battery to show up he began pulling fuses one at a time to locate the offending appliance. But no fuse seemed to stop the draw..... so he got on the ever helpful ford hotline and said what the hell... they then mentioned that when he replaced the IAC in December they told him to add a jumper harness while he was in there(TSB03-703+)... they now told him to remove it.... and Voila the answer we had all been searching for... So in a nut shell Ford/Lincoln told him to put a jumper harness on that then caused me headaches and a shot battery which I paid for and then 4 mos later told him to remove????? Oh and did I mention they were not going to pay him for the hours he spent searching???? all I have to say is what the hell...... I will be sending ford a nice note sometime very soon and asking that they refund my battery purchase and get their collective shit together......
:mad:

[HOTLINC]

My 2000 V6 LS is parked every winter (NW PA - cold) from December 15th to March 15th. It has 77,000 miles, original battery and sits for a month or 2 before I will start and run for 10-15 minutes and then cover back up. Oh, and it sits outside in the weather with only a car cover on it - so it sees several nights with below 0 temps.

This is the first winter that it actually rolled kinda slow, but started and after running twice for at least 30 minutes - it starts like the battery was brand new.

Today was my first official day of taking it to work after 3 months - it is SOOOO good to have it back out as the daily driver! I love my '91 Conti - but...

[ March 16, 2005: Message edited by: HOTLINC ]

[eL eS]

quote:Originally posted by DocHolliday:
OK, here comes the most unlikely answer to my personal battery problem you may have ever heard.... if you have read the above get a load of this.... I went on Vaca to the lovely state of SC for a week and left the 2001 ls sport at the shop with an ultimatum of fix it before I get back..... My tech is a good guy who drives an LS himself so I had faith he would get the job done.... after finally getting the Draw on the battery to show up he began pulling fuses one at a time to locate the offending appliance. But no fuse seemed to stop the draw..... so he got on the ever helpful ford hotline and said what the hell... they then mentioned that when he replaced the IAC in December they told him to add a jumper harness while he was in there(TSB03-703+)... they now told him to remove it.... and Voila the answer we had all been searching for... So in a nut shell Ford/Lincoln told him to put a jumper harness on that then caused me headaches and a shot battery which I paid for and then 4 mos later told him to remove????? Oh and did I mention they were not going to pay him for the hours he spent searching???? all I have to say is what the hell...... I will be sending ford a nice note sometime very soon and asking that they refund my battery purchase and get their collective shit together......
:mad:

you should read flateratetech.com shops have to put up with this BS all the time from the factory. If you can email the wing nuts on the main page and give them the what for on tech hours.

I am not a tech and I do not work for any fomoco affiliate but I am pissed off as all get out at how the fatory robs the shops I go to. So in protest I handle just about every repair on my car now.

It is things like what you went through that make shop techs not give a crap about what they are doing.

Glad your car is fixed up now.

[eL eS]

A gracious good day to you Mr. Hay and Mr. Codina,

As the owner of Ford products, and a weekend automobile DIYer, I am
concerned about the representation, or lack thereof, that the shops
are getting in regards to labor times. One of the many reasons I do my
own work now is because of the problems I had with shops carrying out
my warranty work. Rushed work is never done right! You do not trust
untrained mechanics to carry out recall work and overtly technical
jobs.

The bad habits of poor workmanship are laid when the shops are faced
with turning a product repair around too quickly. The reason why they
have to turn the product around so fast is because they are not
allotted a fair time for labor. If your primary goal is the
preservation the customer current customer base and attract new
customers which directly contribute to dealer profitability your
number one agenda; then the most effective thing you can do to ensure
your goal is met is to lobby for fair labor times.

As a customer nothing means more to me than effective support of my
product; as a support provider of my own product nothing means more to
me than profitability but even I know that without a happy staff you
do not have happy customers. The more work I do to my own car the more
I understand why customer concerns are not being addressed properly
the 1st, 2nd and sometimes even 3rd time.

I have seen what the labor hours are for warranty and non warranty
jobs and more times than none they are not realistic. If profit is
your number one concern then think about what you can do differently
for your support staff and the customers, I mean profits, will return.
Thank you in advance for your time gentlemen; have a pleasant and
profitable day.