Morning startup blues, check engine light, and a high speed miss....

[len91lscse]

Help!!! Can somebody please help me diagnose these problems?

First:
In the morning when I first turn the key the LSC will start,it will idle up, and then immediatly die. I'll turn the key once more and it will start and idle fine. If I lightly blip the throttle before it dies the first time it will continue to run. It never does this any other time.

Second:
When I first get underway in the morning or if the car sits for most of the day the check engine light will blink on and off for a few miles. It never stays on. The light just blinks a few times then stays off.

Third:
Recently while cruising along I get a slight missing sensation. It's never consistent when it does it. Sometimes I will feel it only at 70mph and other times like this evening it came in at about 45mph.

I'm a little baffled. Any chance these symptoms are related? I hope I made sense in my description.

Thanks,
Len

[Charlie]

Check the codes in your computer and see if you have any. Let us know what you find.

[len91lscse]

Charlie,
How do check the codes? Thanks, Len

[Charlie]

I guess you go to pep boys( we don't have them around here) and buy a scanner. I don't know what it cost. I don't think it is too much. There should be directions included with it I hope. I do it the hard way and use a ohm meter. That is to hard to explain. If I ever have trouble agin I will probley pick up a scanner too. Most of the local mechanics are nice enough to do it for me for like 5 bucks or a couple of beers. You probley can't get away with stuff like that in the city.

[pro-five-oh]

I am having the same cold start problem, but without the check engine light or missing.

I would first do a tune up or at least check the plugs (I need to do that) and also get a code scanner and pull some codes. I got no codes so I bet I just need to check my plugs.

[len91lscse]

I've replaced the plugs(Motorcraft), wires(Motorsport), cap(Accel), rotor(Accel), fuel filter(Motorcraft), air cleaner(K&N), and pcv valve(Fram). I set the timing factory spec at 10 degrees. The only modifications are 2.5" exhaust with Flowmasters and the K&n filter. It did it's cold start before the exhaust and the air filter swap. I called Advance Auto today on the code checker and the counter guy said they don't work that well. Len

[Charlie]

You may want to check at a different parts place. They have to work because that is all a mechanic or dealer would do is to check the codes. I spose some work better than others . Some probley cost more too. Maybe someone here will see this and give you a recomendation on which one you should buy.

[Lscman]

Ford Code Checker Scanners are $25 and sold everywhere with the manual included. Anytime the check engine light comes on, a definitive code is sittin' there just waiting to be read!

[pro-five-oh]

Buy a code scanner.

Just because someone works at the parts store doesn't mean they actually know what they are talking about. I remember trying to order a set of "Quad Shocks" for a 5.0 Mustang's rear axle. It came to the point where I had to take the guy out of the store and show him that they actually existed on my car!!!

More to the point, I really don't understand HOW a code scanner can be inaccurate. It's only a circuit board with a buzzer, two switches, a battery and an LED light. After all, the stupid thing just reads the pulses from the computer and converts it into a beep!!!

------------------
pro-five-oh
http://www.coolcats.net/photos/88sajx3.jpg

91 Mark VII BB with Cobra rims(sold)
88 Cougar XR-7 5.0 HO
15.0@93mph, 3740lbs
83 Continental 5.0 SLO
My Mark VII Page (http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/street/3545/mark.html)

[WILLIAM SHIREY]

I need some help concerning reading engine codes. I have an '85 Mark with an EEC-II computer. The Haynes repair book says a "Rotunda breakout box" is needed to diagnose this computer. Does anyone know what this box is or what it looks like? This book goes into great detail for the EEC-IV for later model cars, showing all the trouble codes.
Is there a way to read out the codes with a jumper and the check engine light?
Any help would be appreciated and thanks Charlie for your email.
I'm having idle problems and I wanted to see if any codes have been set (the engine light has not come on though!).

[This message has been edited by WILLIAM SHIREY (edited September 04, 2001).]

[pro-five-oh]

Originally posted by WILLIAM SHIREY:
I have an '85 Mark with an EEC-II computer. The Haynes repair book says a "Rotunda breakout box" is needed to diagnose this computer.

I distinctly remember that all CFI 5.0s got EEC-IV controls in 1984. You should be able to plug in an EEC-IV tester...the Rotunda breakout box is for pre-1982 (???) vehicles. That box is pretty expensive, but I really don't think you need it.

[Charlie]

The first thing I'm am goung to say is to throw that da**ed haynes manual away. I never had any luck with them. Now I am going to contridict myself. Yes you can test without a code reader.(Although for 35 dollars I think you should buy one) To test without it, all you need is a multi tester with a volt meter built in.However the prochder is about 6 paragraphs of typing and I'm not that good. So I dug through my manuals and found the best directions in a Haynes manual, number 1667 ,called Automotive Emmissions Control Manual. Mine was published in 1992. That is why I hate Haynes manuals, they say one thing, than say another. I do not have a scanner so the best I can do is to have a copy made at the bank and mail it to you. If you want me to, give me a e-mail.P.S. you do not need a Rotunda Breakout Box. Whatever in the He** that is!

[TW/92LSC/SE]

A Rotunda Breakout Box is basically a wire harness you plug inbetween the computor and the computor harness . The box has a terminal in it for each wire connected to the computor so that you can read voltages at those terminals instead of poking holes in the wires with a probe. Poking holes in harness wires will cause endless troubleshooting problems in the future as corrosion sets into that pinprick. I've never used one so i can't tell you what else it does.

[WILLIAM SHIREY]

Pro:
You were right! I do have an EEC-IV computer. I misread the Haynes book. I guess what I really want to know is what are the codes for a TBI engine vs. the sequential fuel injected engine? Are most of the codes the same? Does anyone have a list of those codes.
Charlie: I have the procedure in the Haynes book. Thanks.
Can the engine light in an '85 be used to read out the codes (I know this works for later model cars)?
The Haynes book says to use an analog multimeter and I have a digital one, so I don't know if it will work for checking the codes.
Sorry for the confusion. My bad!

[Charlie]

My book has the code listad as the same from 83 to 90. Maybr later but that is when the book was made. If you get the codes out and post them we can all look at them and compair. I do not know if a digatl meter will work. You are spose to count the sweeps of the needle on the meter and this may not be possible on a digatal meter.

[pro-five-oh]

Originally posted by WILLIAM SHIREY:
Pro:
You were right! Can the engine light in an '85 be used to read out the codes (I know this works for later model cars)?

Thanks William! Yeah, I think all EEC-IV cars from until about 1993 used the same 2 digit codes. (A 1993 Mustang will read 2 digit, but a 1993 Mark VIII will read 3 digits)

Anyway, you can either get the S.T.A.R. tester (recommended for its simplicity) or hookup a voltmeter to the S.T.A.R. connector.

You can read the codes from the check engine light, but if you buy the scanner it has a light of its own and makes it easier to do it under the hood.

Later!

[WILLIAM SHIREY]

Pro:
What I'm getting at is do you just ignore the codes that relate to sequential fuel injection or are there codes for TBI engines that substitute for them?
I'm referencing the list that Richard Parker typed in the Lounge forum for EEC-IV. Is there a separate list for EEC-IV with TBI? Thanks.

[This message has been edited by WILLIAM SHIREY (edited September 05, 2001).]

[pro-five-oh]

William:

Yes, just ignore those codes. As far as your Mark's computer is concerned, they do not exist. You will never see them.

[WILLIAM SHIREY]

Pro:
Thanks for all your input. Can you tell if all the codes that relate to the TBI EEC-IV are on Richard Parker's list (Haynes book)? It seems that Lincoln would have dropped the codes that applied specifically to TBI after sequential fuel injection took over.
Do you think I can use the engine light in the dash on my '85 to read out the codes (it works on my '89 Astrovan)? Thanks.

[This message has been edited by WILLIAM SHIREY (edited September 06, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by WILLIAM SHIREY (edited September 06, 2001).]

[pro-five-oh]

Originally posted by WILLIAM SHIREY:
It seems that Lincoln would have dropped the codes that applied specifically to TBI after sequential fuel injection took over.


Nah, I don't think so. I do not own a EEC-IV TBI car but I think the codes are interchangable. An EGR valve is still an EGR valve no matter which type of injection it has, right? http://www.lincolnsonline.com/ubb/smile.gif

I had mentioned it before, but yes you CAN get the codes from the light. You can read the codes from the check engine light, but if you buy the scanner it has a light of its own and makes it easier to do it under the hood. That is where the test port is, so it is much more convienent.

Your Astro Van probably has the test port underneath the dash, so the Check Engine light is convienent. Not so on the Ford.


[This message has been edited by pro-five-oh (edited September 06, 2001).]

[pro-five-oh]

Originally posted by len91lscse:
In the morning when I first turn the key the LSC will start,it will idle up, and then immediatly die.

Len, like I said before I had this same problem. I found a vacuum leak (a hose near the intake and the distributor) and once I put a little electical tape on it the car ran great when cold.

I'll get some new vacuum hose and permanently fix the problem soon. This might be part of your problem too.

[sportinsco]

This was part of my problem on my 82 Conti although it may be a carb motor vac systems should be the same, I had found a solid vac line (plastic I assume) was half gone.. I cut the line and connected the 2 ends with a rubber line...

Hey ProFive,,, I finally changed that heater core recently,, took around 6 hrs (maybe Im good http://www.lincolnsonline.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ) Also I raided a junkyard in a local city came home with an entire vac line "harness" along with Vacmotor,tempswitch
from an 84 marquis wagon... CAr runs great in the cold now http://www.lincolnsonline.com/ubb/smile.gif

A while back I asked where the fuel flow sensor was located that feeds Fuel economy info to the Message Center, you said it was on the front of the VV CArb but the only unit on the front is the Feedback Carb Actuator motor which adjusts the fuel/air ratio,,, any other idea's where it may be? in the books I have it does not show the true location and it appears the sender isnt an emmisions component.. thx

Sco