Good V8 LS Manual Transmission conversion??

[Lscman]

Anyone know of a bolt-on manual trans conversion for the early V8 LS cars? If so, who makes it and which tranny is it based upon? I'm giving the RWD american cars a one last look before switching to a 4dr BMW M3 or 540i with a factory 5 or 6 speed stick. No, I can't live with an automatic...no matter how nice it works in the manual shift mode. This car will be run on road racing tracks & an automatic is NOT the hot ticket.

Are there beefy brake kits available for these cars?

[351CJ]

There are big brakes available for the LS. You should be able to find info on llsoc.com

McLaren was supposed to do a high performance LS supercharged, 350 HP and 6 speed manual. However they dropped the project because they could only get a handful of Lincoln dealers to sell their cars. There is a place selling the leftover McLaren parts, but don't know if there are any MTX parts availble.

The problem with doing a MTX for the LS V8 is that the bell housing, which was determined by Jag is different from all othe Fords.

With that said, Saleen has been promoing it's modified T-Bird with optional 6 speed MTX, and LSD rear end. I suggess you try contacting Saleen and see if they really have anything real to sell.

[Lscman]

351CJ,

Is the "motor to bellhousing" bolt pattern a Jaguar design? I assume you're not referring to the trans-to-bell pattern. Does the new 4.6 LS motor have this same bastard pattern? Thanks for info.

[Icarus]

The 2000-2002 V6 5-speed manual Lincolns are very close to the same performance numbers as the auto V8's from what I have read smile.gif

I don't know if you made a typo, but the M3's are only 2dr, not 4dr...

Imho, I'd spend a lil more and get a BMW, but I'm biased as I work at a BMW dealership up here now :D
I'd love to get my hands on an M3 with the SMG in it for a daily driver ;)
I've worked at a Lincoln dealer too, and only ever saw one V8 with a stick, and the guy had spent ~$20000 CDN in mods to the car so he could 'play' on the tracks, I never found out exactly what had been done to it, it was supercharged. It was a wild looking car (I got to change the oil in it & drive it around the building, yah!!! lol... :rolleyes: ) :D

[pro-five-oh]

If you can get it done Rick, that would be awesome. If not maybe the DEW98 based Mustang will open new opportunities for the LS in a couple of years.

If all else fails, maybe get a certified pre-owned BMW for a couple years? :D :D :D

[Lscman]

Icarus,

Plenty of 4 door M3's and M5's exist. I think the 4 dr M3 debuted in 1996. The ratio between 2 dr and 4 dr bodies is about 1 in 5. Many were sold with manual transmissions too. The North American E36 M3 had a 5 speed while the euro version had the 6 spd.

The older '92-'99 series 3.0L and 3.2L E36 M3's with a stick typically runs 14.0 to 14.3 without any mods. That puts them squarely into pre-y2k OEM-spec Cobra territory. The E36 motors are bulletproof & turbo/supercharger "bolt-on friendly", much like a 5L. The beauty of the M3 is their rare combination of true sports car handling, manual trans, RWD and 5 passenger sedan comfort. I want it all....hence a BMW M3 5spd or 540i 6 spd or Audi A6 4dr 2.7 twin turbo 6spd.

The fact that LS V6 stick cars are almost as fast as the 3.9L V8 with auto is both predictable and sad. The V8 cars would undoubtedly have run around 14 flat with a 5 or 6 speed stick. Why Lincoln mated the performance-oriented manual trans with it's standard motor is beyond me. Surely they couldn't think stick buyers are looking for better gas mileage. Those folks are buying diesels and Focus'.

If the stick option had been offered on the V8 instead, it would have sold better and put the LS in a much better light from a performance envelope perspective. A simple brake and wheel upgrade could have put the LS in the limelight and boosted sales across the spectrum. Folks read about these flagship cars in the magazines and buy it's watered down cousin. The BMW M3 is what sells 325i's and the BMW M5 is what sells the 528i etc.

I want the flagship car.

[Icarus]

Ah, I missed the older 4dr M-sedans, sorry... I've have yet to ever see one :(
Thxs pro smile.gif

Lincoln is digging there own grave by not getting into this stuff...

[351CJ]

quote:Originally posted by Lscman:
351CJ,

Is the "motor to bellhousing" bolt pattern a Jaguar design? I assume you're not referring to the trans-to-bell pattern. Does the new 4.6 LS motor have this same bastard pattern? Thanks for info.

The LS V8 engine is part of the AJ-V8 family and has the same bell housing bolt pattern that Jag uses, all AJ-V8's 3.9L, 4.0L and 4.2L use this same bell housing size and pattern.

The 4.6L still uses the same "Ford standard" bell housing bolt pattern and size, which is different than the AJ-V8 family.

McLaren was supposed to have made a bell housing for the 3.9L to T6, 6 speed trannie, but I don't know if they made more than 1 prototype or not.

As I mentioned before, your best bet is to contact Saleen, as they claim to have a 6 Speed manual tannie and LSD available for the T-Bird, which uses the same 3.9L engine as the LS does.

As far as just buying a BMW, anyone with enough $ can do that. I'd much rather see LSCMAN figure out a way to get this done on a LS as there are many others who would like to put a 6 speed manual in their LS V8.

[ July 27, 2003: Message edited by: 351CJ ]

[351CJ]

quote:Originally posted by Icarus:

Lincoln is digging there own grave by not getting into this stuff...


Just to get you guys drooling a bit, Lincoln built a prototype LS with the 5.0L FR-500 / Cammer motor (large bore 4.6L DOHC with about 380 HP, normally aspirated). It also has a T6, 6 speed manual.

I know someone who got a chance to ride in it, passenger only, a Ford engineer was driving. He said the thing was somewhat unrefined (compared to the 3.9L) but it had MAJOR ATTITUDE. The 4.6L fits in the LS with some minor modifications.

Unfortunately I think Ford's fiscal chrisis killed the project which is why Ford tried to get McLaren to make a high-PO LS version and is now trying to woo Saleen to do something with both the T-Bird and LS.

Also rumors are that when the T-Bird and the present generation LS go away, most likely the end of 2005, so will the AJ-3.9L V8. The next generation LS will most likely use some version of the V8 Mod motor.

[Icarus]

quote:Originally posted by 351CJ:


...The LS V8 engine is part of the AJ-V8 family and has the same bell housing bolt pattern that Jag uses, all AJ-V8's 3.9L, 4.0L and 4.2L use this same bell housing size and pattern...



So can a manual Jag transmission be used possibly then? You'd have to figure out driveshaft lengths etc, but thats not to bad to do...

[Lscman]

That concept car sounds real exciting, 351CJ. Too bad it never materialized for sale.

Good point, Icarus. However if a manual Jag trans to fit even exists, I'm betting an auto to manual conversion would cost $5K-$7K in parts alone. Putting things into perspective, a D&D Walsh T56 trans for a Mustang Fox costs about $3K and the ancillary parts (flywheel, clutch etc) another $1500 to $2K. No doubt the Jag parts cost 50% more. Most foreign car remanufactured manual transmissions cost $5K without flywheel, clutch etc. From my experience, that price covers BMW, Lexus and Mitsubishi....probably Jag.

The mexi-american Tremec and (T series Borg Warner heritage) manual transmissions are real "affordable". I can't see paying $5k+ to convert an LS, no matter how unique and positive the outcome. I am always looking at resale value and equity. From that perspective, an LS-based M3 beater is a bad investment. The required trans, brakes, suspension mods and 8" wide wheels would put the price "out of range" for similar performance. I was hoping the 3.9L would take SN-95 salvage trans parts. Too damn bad. I'll have to wait another 5 years and see what mods are available for the new 4.6L LS.

[ July 30, 2003: Message edited by: Lscman ]

[Lscman]

Well, I gave up on "our" motherland and bought a 540i 6spd. Something tells me it'll be a while until the LS comes with 9" wide rear wheels, 12.8" brakes and a stickshift/V8 combo. Lincoln found a way to lose one of their best customers. Friggin idiots....LS stick only available with economy V6. OK, nobody wants a stick...let's cancel the manual trans due to lack of interest! Great decisions. :confused:

[Lscman]

How about that new rear wheel drive Cadillac with the mandatory T56 mated to a 400 HP Vette motor?? Think that'll obligate Lincoln to release an LS with a Cobra drivetrain and powertrain? Nah, I doubt it. :rolleyes:

[Eyelawdoc]

The Cadillac CTS-V is indeed exciting! Too bad the bean counters at Ford wouldn't let them build a LS that would have competed with it. I'm going to have a serious look at it when it becomes available. Need to find a true performance replacement for my Mark VII LSC. smile.gif

[SnotRod13]

Sounds like buying a V6 5-speed and changing engines would be easier, depending on bell bolt pattern. Is Roush doing anything?