'92 Conti Brake Bleeding Problem

[Tom from Lakeland, FL]

I bought a used Conti a few years back. Previous owner evidently didn't want to spend the bucks when the air suspension started to go bad so he/she replaced them with reglar shocks. I just had to have the rear brakes replaced to include new rotors, calipers, & pads. Now the mechanic can't get the air out of the brake lines so we have a soft (and fading) pedal. They tried bleeding 3 xs and replaced the master cylinder 2 xs. No dice! Sent it to the dealer who says that until the air suspension is put back like originally, the air connot be bled because the two systems are linked and there is no way to open some sort of equalizer module that works with the ABS system in order to bleed the system correctly. I don't understand all this stuff. The dealer refuses to work on it because they can no longer get the balance bars new and the ones that were on there were evidently removed when the original air suspension system was modified. The dealer has all but told me I should put the care "down" 'cause its too old. Its a perfectly good vehicle except for the "squishy" brake pedal! What do I need to do? Any suggestions?

[Steve Moran]

The Dealer is full of sh!t the suspension has nothing what so ever with bleeding the brakes.
I have 3 Contis and have had a problem with the rear hoses on all of them. the hoses will collaps on the inside and cause bleeding problems.

When you do this and it works do me a faver, call the service manager at the dealership and tell him to go fu** him self!

:mad:

[ March 02, 2005: Message edited by: Steve Moran ]

[pro-five-oh]

Every Lincoln owner realizes that after the warranty period, it is a horrible idea to go back to the dealer for anything but parts. smile.gif

I'd examine those rear hoses like Steve said.

[Steve Moran]

Sorry about going over the top like that.
I guess when I hear that someone is getting taken for a ride, it bugs me.

[Tom from Lakeland, FL]

Well Steve, I took your advice and had the rear hoses replaced ($198)later and the Firestone place still can't get the air bled out of the system. When you hit the brakes, you do get braking but then the pedal slowly fades down to within an inch or so of the floorboard. You never do really lose the brakes. If you pump them once, then they will stay up as long as you hold your foot on the pedal. Its really weird. I heard that you have to unscrew the new calipers in order to adjust them so the pads are withing a certain distance to the rotors and I asked the guy at Firestone and he said he knew about that and had adjusted the pads out, sooooooooo. Any more ideas guys?

[DustyLBottoms]

What's the real issue here? Does the car actually stop when you press the brake pedal? Or does the pedal just feel "soft" and you'd like it firmer?

I had the same issue with my '92 Conti, I bled the system 3 times in a row, each time going back to the car and pressing the pedal repeatedly, and each time wondering the problem was. I finally said "Screw it" and took the car for a test drive. Brakes worked wonderfully, it was just that the pedal feel is "soft"

*shrug*

that's my two cents smile.gif

[98conti]

Tom says, "When you hit the brakes, you do get braking but then the pedal slowly fades down to within an inch or so of the floorboard. If you pump them once, then they will stay up as long as you hold your foot on the pedal."

Did they botch the rear pad/caliper work? Did they bleed the Master Cylinder? Could be the MC leaking internally.

A common mistake in manual bleeding is to not limit pedal travel and allow the brake pedal to go to the floor. It can rupture internal seals in the MC.

[ March 07, 2005: Message edited by: 98conti ]

[AceFrehley03]

Agreed, I did this in the CRX.

Sounds like the Master Cylinder took a crap.

[pro-five-oh]

quote:Originally posted by 98conti:
A common mistake in manual bleeding is to not limit pedal travel and allow the brake pedal to go to the floor. It can rupture internal seals in the MC.

I learn something new everyday on this website. smile.gif

[Steve Moran]

I also have seen people put calipers on the wrong side keeping the bleeder screw to low.

Tom. If it didn't work, yours would be the first that has not worked for. I will still suggest it to any one else as a measure. The 90 conti I salvaged even had it done because of the same reason.

[95conty]

IS you power Booster bad? that will give a squishy pedal too.

[peppermrj]

I hate to answer a question with a question,BUT.
I am getting ready to put pads on my daughters midgetmobile (96 saturn sc2). Being a greybeard that has been out of the loop for a while I did some homework on ABS.
I was told by Harold of the "power brake x-change".
1 that when you seat the pistons back into the calipers you must open the bleeder.
2 That if you get air in the system a scanner with a special attachment is needed to cycle the ABS on and off in order to bleed it correctly.

That being said I refer to the original post.
"there is no way to open some sort of equalizer module that works with the ABS system in order to bleed the system correctly."

Is a tool for activating the ABS also required in this instance?

I will ask Harold next chance I get.

I do have to put in a shameless plug. The guys at the power brake are factory certified rebuilders of Calipers, mastercylinders,vacuum boosters,hydro boosters, power steering pumps,boxes,racks,etc. They are also distributors for most major ABS systems and components. Harold is a real pro on just about everything new to antique. He is courtious and always had the right answer for me.

I apologize for being so long winded.

tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif

[Tom from Lakeland, FL]

Thanks guys for all the suggestions and help. I took the car to another mechanic and he just called to say that it is fixed. SOLUTION: He had to adjust the calipers out (by unscrewing them) in oredr for the pistons not to have to travel too great a distance before the pads contacted the rotors. Since the pads were sooooo far from the rotors, it was taking lots of fluid to push them out and that is why the pedal slowly faded towards the floorboard. Once that was done, if you pumped they would stay up and be hard as long as your foot remained on the pedal because they pistons were out and in position! I will be sending Firestone a bill for the hoses I had them put on, the repair bill from the second mechanic and also for the 14 days I did not have use of my vehicle. I will also be sending a nasty letter to the dealer for their throwing up that smoke screen issue with the air suspension system when they should have just checked out the caliper adjustment on the rear brakes!!! Idiots!

[pro-five-oh]

Well done, I love hearing that! Thank you for not becoming a victim!!!

EDIT: Might wanna add that the dealer was 1) stupid enough to think that the suspension and brakes were related and 2)willing to let a customer leave with unsafe brakes...idiots!

[ March 09, 2005: Message edited by: pro-five-oh ]

[ronw]

how the hell you put the calipers on the wrong side???? did you back the car in the garage? may be new here but!!! may be gone. im not sure of the ppl on here. im scared!!!!! :eek:

[Steve Moran]

quote:Originally posted by ronw:
how the hell you put the calipers on the wrong side???? did you back the car in the garage? may be new here but!!! may be gone. im not sure of the ppl on here. im scared!!!!! :eek:

He never said he did put them on the wrong side.

Yes it can happen you'd be supprised.

Rear calipers look very much the same and have been known to be put on the wrong side.
the bleeder screw will end up to low and won't work right.

I didn't ask the question to be a smart ass I did it because I wanted him to look.

[ March 13, 2005: Message edited by: Steve Moran ]

[pro-five-oh]

quote:Originally posted by ronw:
how the hell you put the calipers on the wrong side???? did you back the car in the garage? may be new here but!!! may be gone. im not sure of the ppl on here. im scared!!!!! :eek:

Well your '72 has drum brakes in the back... smile.gif

[ronw]

yes the 72 has drum brakes but the 94 mark v111 we have has 4 wheel disc, i just personnely have never seen a caliper put on the wrong side in my 35 yrs of wrenching.

[ronw]

this system must be bled in 2 steps.you have to blead the master cyl, and the hydraulic control unit. to bleed them both there is a 55 pin plug at the electronic control unit. you then need to install the anti-lock brake breakout box/bleeding adapter to the 55-pin plug.this info is avail in the chilton manual. (the black collectors edition.) with out the breakout box, it claimes you will have spongey brake pedal. hope this sheds some light on this. Ron

[Jeanine Coleman]

Many problems with my computer system and car in general

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Electrical problem;
Occasionally this happens:

1. Dcl warning beeps and all of right screen ------ doesnt read
2. Oil pressure warning beeps
3. Check engine warning
4. Speedometer goes out

What does this mean? What can I do to fix this?

B) Also I am having problems with my brakes I am told that the back brakes wont bleed there is air in them and that I must take them to a ford dealership so that they can put it on a machine so that the computer thinks it is in drive mode so that the brakes can be bleed. Anyone heard of this?

C) While riding my ride control (airbags?) messes up.

D) Also I am told that something is draining my battery

I have a 94 cont ex power everything

Please help!!!

I live in Maryland does anyone know a good mechanic that works on fords?

If you can help please email me at Jeaninelane02@netscape.net:

[98TC-Cartier]

Don't know about the 94's, but on the 88 Conti models with the ABS accumulator, pump the pedal a whole bunch of times to empty the pressure from the ABS system. You will know when you are done, takes about 50 presses BTW.

Siphon out most of the old fluid from the master cyl, fill with fresh and then bleed the brakes as normal without turning the ignition switch to on. The rear hoses do collapse and Ford (in Canada anyways) have discontinued that part.