Questions on superchargering or turbo charging a 87" lincoln contenintel.

[Cardea Blue]

Ok,

As you can see I am new to the forums but I'm not in anyway new to this subject at all. I was poundering a question I'd come here to post it since this forum specializes in what I am interested in doing. So I'mma stop dattling and get to it along wit hthe fact that I didn't know where to post this. I picked this spot because it said main forum and everything.Anyways I am interested in seeing how more or less difficult it would be to turbo or supercharge a lincoln well my lincoln in perticular. It has a 5.0 motor and it verystrong with 66,998 miles on it or something like that give or take a digit. It's in tip top condition and has been garage kept for the longest before we bought it. . So now I'm just exploring my options as to possibilities these car has. I figured since it has pretty much teh same motor as any other mustang what difference could it make ? that's why I came here to get some answers. Can any of you people help me out ?

~Blackbob~~ :confused: :confused:
http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=403119

http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8318

http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8902

[Nick]

Sadly, the Continental does not have pretty much the same engine as a Mustang. Mustangs have forged internals and more power. Even the firing order is different. You would basically need to rebuild the engine to make it into a Mustang HO or you would need an engine swap. If I remember correctly, the heads are restrictive and so is the exhaust. I would recommend putting in an LSC H pipe and converting to full dual exhaust with less restrictive catalysts. I know more upgrades are needed but I'm not familiar enough with them. All I remember is the low output 5.0 isn't as easy to supe up as it looks.

For better handling: get a front anti-roll bar from an '87-'88 Turbo Coupe or Cougar XR7 and order a special rear anti-roll bar from Addco (I think #415). I think LSC air springs can also be retrofitted to the Continental and are 35% stiffer. A set of '88 and up LSC wheels will give you a bigger wheel and tire combo to take advantage of the new handling prowess. Driving around with a broken air suspension is bad for the car and will wear out the pump very soon. Stock springs are $160-$200 and install takes about an hour. A Rebuilt pump is around $150. Good luck with your car!

[Cardea Blue]

Well crab know doesn't that just rain on my parade. So I guess it would be alot easier if I had a Mark ? Dammit and I had all these plans too. Well is the suspinsion really out because the car has always done that when it's off,or is it not surpose to do that at all ? Anyway so what are you suggestions as to do with it next ? It's a slick car inside and out and other then it's ungodly uglyness there's nothing wrong with it and is there any hope for it at all other then becoming another show car or some ghetto drug dealer low rider ? I was really hoping to be able to get some kind of performance out of it but is it even capable of that ?

~Blackbob~

[luv my Lincoln]

Years ago we had an '84 Continental. It was the first Lincoln we ever had and we bought it used. It was fun to drive until it got a lot of miles on it but I never did any soup up work on the engine. We sold it with about 143,000 miles on it.

Since it's been brought up, it looks like your suspension is definately bad and sagging. It's not supposed to bottom out when the engine is off. The system is supposed to keep the car level and pumped up anyway. We eventually had to spend a ton of money replacing all the air bag suspension parts and the air compressor. As mentioned, it's dangerous to drive with the suspension down and if any air spring leaks it will put a strain on the rest of the system and eventually wear out the other ones and possibly the compressor.

I think the early models with the air bag suspension on all four wheels wasn't a very good design for longevity. I believe 1984 was the first year for this design. I'm sure there are other posts on here about this. Check out the suspension forum. The air springs would get pin hole leaks in the rubber in the creases and then the compressor would go crazy trying to level everything.

If you're seriously looking for a car to drive for awhile and put some money into for performance and handling, think long and hard about what you're going to have to spend just to get this one in good shape. You could conceivably spend over $1,000 just on suspension parts and labor if you have all the work done. I'm just being honest with you from our own experience with the dealership here and the cost of repairs.

I would check out estimates of repairs before you decide what to do with this car. You might be better off getting another one. Good luck to you. If you decide to get another early Continental, keep in mind about the air bags eventually wearing out and getting pin holes. This info came straight from the dealership mechanics. Later models might have had better material for the air springs. I'm not familiar with them. I now see very few early Continentals on the road here and most seem to have some kind of sagging problem.

[ March 01, 2003: Message edited by: luv my Lincoln ]

[Cardea Blue]

Well I rather you be honsest with me. Then help me improve ways of going fast rather then tell me something about the present. See now that you have brought this to my attention I know it has been so hard to sell this car. For that matter I am going to do something about it. See belive it or not I am very mechanicly inclined and I know alot of people too. See I know some peeps that know people who specialized in the area of airbag suspintion and well mintrucks in general. Ever heard of the name Acrofobia ?,well there a car club in florida and other parts of the US who do all this and all. So now that you told me I think I'mma give him a call. See what we will probably do is override the computer and hook up some manual controls like regular airbags on most custom rides. But since I want more GO the SHOW then we'll find a way to work around it and all. But again thank you fo telling me. And trust me it's not as big a deal as it seems. Is there anything else you guys can tell me though ?

~Blackbob~

[pro-five-oh]

quote:Originally posted by Nick:
Sadly, the Continental does not have pretty much the same engine as a Mustang. Mustangs have forged internals and more power...I remember is the low output 5.0 isn't as easy to supe up as it looks.


I wouldn't give up JUST yet! The 1987 models have a VERY similar motor to the Mustang. Forged pistons, roller rockers, and a port EFI system that CAN be converted to Mustang specs...

But you gotta be a little demented to wanna do it. Okay, here's my checklist to get the Conti to a Mustang style 5.0:

*Mustang HO camshaft
*Mustang "E7TE" cylinder heads (stock heads only, you can't use bigger valves with those pistons)
*Mustang UPPER intake, lower one is the same
*Mustang throttlebody
*Exhaust headers of your choice
*lengthen 02 sensors to relocate them to the H-pipe
*H-pipe exhaust system of your choice (preferably something that mimicks the Mark VII LSC exhaust)
*Mustang "A9L" or "A9P" computer
*A mass air conversion kit to use the Mustang computer
*Wiring diagrams of the Mustang computer and the Continental...just to make sure that all wires go to the same holes on the wiring harnesses.


If you finish that part, here's what you need to turbocharge/supercharge the Mustang motor in your Continental:

*The blower kit (mustang kit)
*the correct fuel (bigger injectors, fuel pump) and ignition equipment (plugs, ignition box) to go with it (again, a Mustang kit)
*Someone who knows Mustangs to tune the A9L computer to make sure it runs right and has power

If you REALLY want to do this...go for it. It is possible, and others have done it to the Mark VII. Since the Mark VII is basically the same thing as the Conti, you can do it if you are crazy enough to want it.

Welcome to the boards and tell us what you think... smile.gif

[Cardea Blue]

Thanks PRO-FIVE-O,

:( smile.gif That's about the best news I have heard all day really. See everything nick told me I already knew so it's not like I wasn't :( smile.gif :confused: tongue.gif expecting it anyway. Oh and I wanna say thanks again to the guy who pointed out my suspition problem I'll get on that ASAP. But what I really need is a job. I got less then two months till my "16TH" birthday and man am I counting down. what I wanna do is somethign that HASN'T been done before to a Conti. See I know people have done that Marks inside and out. But when was the last time you say a 600 to 800 HP lincoln :eek: ? Yeah I know it sounds outrages :eek: but hey the mentally whacked are alays outragous ! I've posted this same question on other ford specialty forums. I even e-mail some mustang magazines too ! I wanna get as much info on this as possible when I do this. So I hope I have as much support for this as possible. Thanks again,

~Blackbob~

[Bill Murray]

Black Bob:

You are definitely my kind of guy!!!!!

I posted on this forum a long time ago my desire to purchase and upgrade an early 90's Continental (Pat and I are on our second and last due to their being discontinued current generation Conti). I just flat liked the looks of the squared off early 90's version.
I got shot down big time by the guys here but in the end they also said "If you have to do it, here is how to go about it".

Your car is pretty unusual, quite rare anymore and probably worth doing up right if you are willing to keep it until you have amortized your investment. It is sort of like this, I guess, if you have zilch invested in the base vehicle, you can consider that to buy a new anything you start at about $11k and go up from there. If you are in the car like 2 large, you have a long way to go before you hit the amount you would spend to buy a new Kia/Hyundai/Mitsubishi or whatever econobox that you would hate from the day you bought it.

Downside, since you mentioned you need a job, is you cannot finance all this stuff through the bank or whatever. You have to save money (hard to do), lay it out and understand you will never get the money back when you sell the car. That ain't all bad if you want a radical ride that you can live with for 2-3-4 years and call the wrecker at the end of that time and call it a day.

Do keep us informed as to what you decide to do.
Bill

[Cardea Blue]

quote:Originally posted by Bill Murray:
Black Bob:

You are definitely my kind of guy!!!!!

I posted on this forum a long time ago my desire to purchase and upgrade an early 90's Continental (Pat and I are on our second and last due to their being discontinued current generation Conti). I just flat liked the looks of the squared off early 90's version.
I got shot down big time by the guys here but in the end they also said "If you have to do it, here is how to go about it".

Your car is pretty unusual, quite rare anymore and probably worth doing up right if you are willing to keep it until you have amortized your investment. It is sort of like this, I guess, if you have zilch invested in the base vehicle, you can consider that to buy a new anything you start at about $11k and go up from there. If you are in the car like 2 large, you have a long way to go before you hit the amount you would spend to buy a new Kia/Hyundai/Mitsubishi or whatever econobox that you would hate from the day you bought it.

Downside, since you mentioned you need a job, is you cannot finance all this stuff through the bank or whatever. You have to save money (hard to do), lay it out and understand you will never get the money back when you sell the car. That ain't all bad if you want a radical ride that you can live with for 2-3-4 years and call the wrecker at the end of that time and call it a day.

Do keep us informed as to what you decide to do.
Bill

Yeah,

I get that all the time alot of my older car generation friends ,you know guys that I can go with a question they tell me the same thing too. But like Tyrese (singer/actor guy) I think I'mma hold on to it as long as possible because you never know what could happen. Who know's my mom might hit the lottery and I might even become famous for something. Besides all that I will be working ALL summer and through next school year too. I have made a map of what I wanna do and what I wanna do first. It is official that I must assist that suspention problem before I do anything. After that I will start rebuilding the engine from the ground up. First I'mma buy all the parts (heads,cam,intake,wiring,etc..) wait till I'm good and ready get a friend and take it down for a weekend or to and wait till it's good and done. Then go to the tranny and lastly body work. I figure a good 11 grand will get the car where I want it. Belive it or not but most people spent more on cloths in 6 months time then that. So I gotta it for the most parts coverd. But yes I will keep all of you informed but I hope you guys keep posting and asking how things are going with me to check up and all.

~Blackbob~

[djx]

Wow I've always felt those were the best looking Conti's until the 98 up came out,but any way I got a Mark VII.A 87 Bill Blass,it didn't come with a H.O. either.Then I found this site and did the motor swap.After you get your suspension fixed I'd get the exhaust done,it will add a little hp and you'll need it done first anyway(while you're saving up). :rolleyes: Good luck stay in touch because these guys talked me through the swap. ;)

[Cardea Blue]

That's cool,it really is I have never in my time on the internat joined a forum and felt so"at home". Really and I'm not just saying that you guys are like dads to me almost. Maybe it's cause this is a lincoln forum and you all have been there and done that and taht's why you own one now ,who knows. But anyway yeah I will be doing that first and I do need more advice on exuast too. See I wanted to really open it up like some Borla or nice Flows on it you know to give it that aggressive scare the shit out of every highschool kid with a stang or camaro that I know.

~Blackbob~

[JustinMarkVII]

My Continental is being converted to HO as we speak... and Hopefully soon (ie: within a few months) it will be supercharged as well.


But, I don't want to say too much more ;)

[Cardea Blue]

Hmmmm.......

Compitition just...what I need ....Well anyway I just got back from the www.turbomustangsforum.com (http://www.turbomustangsforum.com) and the guys there have been more then helpful. Actually one of the guys there has a buddy that's about to twin turbo a lincoln too ! With two thunderbird turbos so I'm trying to get this guys email addy to see what the can tell me to help me out a little.

~Blackbob~
Check the guess progress here !

[ March 03, 2003: Message edited by: Cardea Blue ]
CLICKME ! (http://ourworld.cs.com/qtmotorsports/id19.htm?f=fs)

[ March 03, 2003: Message edited by: Cardea Blue ]

[Cardea Blue]

I'm back !

~Blackbob~

[Lscman]

A proper conversion to HO and upgrade to supercharger will require some costly transmission mods too. The whole project will involve massive labor & cost more than a good, used mid-'80's Corvette or Porsche 944T. Sports cars will perform far better out-of-the-box for zero labor and they have excellent resale value. True performance involves brakes, suspension, tires/wheels etc, not just acceleration.

My advice is to purchase/use the proper tool (vehicle) for each job (need). The Continental is a luxury car. All you can do is ruin it's few redeeming qualities by trying to turn it into a sports car. A total transformation of a Continental into a true sports machine is possible....but it's cost would approach $20K. After all the work, it couldn't touch a real sports car with a 10' pole...a girthy Impala SS or Marauder, yes. You'd need to address engine durability, engine horsepower, engine cooling, transmission, suspension, braking, wheel/tire combo....and then the aerodynamics, stock seats & weight would make it a joke. IMO, the whole project would be a flush of money and time and it's been done many times before. Ask those who did it if wish for their money and time back.

[pro-five-oh]

quote:Originally posted by Cardea Blue:
I'm back !

Yes, you are! :D

[Cardea Blue]

Well unles I can sell this ting in time and get money to buy a "REAL" sports car. It's all I got for now.

~Blackbob~

[Lscman]

Fair enough, Bob.....but I see used Porsche 944T's and C4 Corvette's in the paper (that run solid 13's with chip and/or exhaust mods) for around $5-$6K....less than the cost of a 5L supercharger, performance transmission rebuild, gears, decent tires & wheels, oversize swaybars and decent shocks/struts and brake pads, high flow custom exhaust & MAF conversion.

Plan A involves reading the sunday paper, plucking down $5K for a sports car, visiting a Notary & turning the key and driving.

Plan B involves plucking down $5K for a monster box of parts followed by greasy hands, struggles and massive labor. Resale value of the "unique" finished product is hardly worth discussing. Emissions legality is a serious concern in many areas.

Just trying to help with a sanity check. If radical mods to a Continental still sound like a good option, you'll be downright happy with the predictable outcome. It seldom makes sense, but a RWD 5L Continental "can" definitely be transformed into a performance car. IMO, owner satisfaction is what's important. I'm not judging anyone. smile.gif

[JustinMarkVII]

Aww,

It isn't THAT bad, Lscman ;) I picked up my '87 Givenchy with 63,000 miles for $900, and am investing about $5,000 in parts and I'll have a car that will run low 13s... Not extremely fast like a Corvette, but quick enough to turn some heads. The best part of all? I'll have 4 doors and room for all my friends :D ;)

And Yes, perhaps I am a little bit crazy. But who cares? :D

[Cardea Blue]

quote:Originally posted by JustinMarkVII:
Aww,

It isn't THAT bad, Lscman ;) I picked up my '87 Givenchy with 63,000 miles for $900, and am investing about $5,000 in parts and I'll have a car that will run low 13s... Not extremely fast like a Corvette, but quick enough to turn some heads. The best part of all? I'll have 4 doors and room for all my friends :D ;)

And Yes, perhaps I am a little bit crazy. But who cares? :D


"AMEN to that !"

~Blackbob~

[Lscman]

Justin & Bob,

I couldn't agree with you more. If you don't mind all the work and require a heavy 4 door chassis, I say go for it. Many folks need a roomy 4 door car like you and the cars I mention do not meet this requirement.

A hot rod Conti is a terrible investment from a resale standpoint, but if it's what you want to drive and own for the next 10 years that hardly matters. Having tracked a stock-ish Mark VII for many years, I understand the fun and humor associated with underdog/sleeper vehicles.

I'm only warning nieve folks that say they're going to wrench for a couple weekends & obtain sports car performance for a competitive price. An HO conversion with add-on blower, exhaust, suspension, AOD/converter beefup, gears, 3 core rad, performance wheels, brakes and tires is a bit more than $5K....perhaps double that. Cost-cutting will result in a silly, compromised machine with major shortcomings.

For example, a supercharged 4000lb, 13 second vehicle with 10.9" front rotors & Gabriel's...God help the public. Factory brakes are marginal for a 16 second, 4000lb vehicle or a mid 14 second 3000 lb vehicle. Non-performance struts and shocks will not tame a 4000 lb chassis with a serious powerplant. You need a $500 set of Koni's or similar. All these severe duty parts are std equipment on a sports car which is designed for such duty. Lincoln performance parts are extra cost and increasingly rare.

[Cardea Blue]

Yeah,

I know I know but lately I have been looking into getting a TA or a Camaro because for a kid my age it would be considurably cheaper then a linc. Besides I HATE big cars I like luxery but in a smaller package know what I mean ? anyone wanna buy my car by the way ?

~blackbob~

[pro-five-oh]

Looks like someone had made a 4-wheeled BREAKTHROUGH. Hallelujah!

Now go get yourself a ponycar and you'll be happy...just don't kill yourself in the process. smile.gif

[JustinMarkVII]

I'm still crazy enough to modify a Continental, though! :D

Lscman,

Currently, I have KYB shocks and struts on the car, and Stillen brake pads and rotors. Do you think that is adequate for a high 13 second car?

[Cardea Blue]

Thanks guys for ALL your help I will keep posting here though. Today we sold it for 400 I now its low but it had to go. I will continue to post and let you guys know what I do get though.

~Blackbob~

[Lscman]

Everything is relative, Justin. For world class braking in a 3800 lb Mark VII, you'd need 14"+ rotors, 8 pot calipers and huge cooling ducts. The car is noseheavy, so for balance, the vast majority of the braking must be performed by the fronts. My directional 13" rotors & aluminum multi-piston calipers are downright "marginal" for a 3200 lb Vette that runs mid-13's. This is with 50/50 weight distribution that's "kind" to front brakes and max rear bias dialed-in. Most sub-$10K used european sports cars make my car look & feel totally lame in the braking dept. Loss of braking is common for me when running against 2800 lb Porsches and BMW's.

The Mark VII strut and shock options are limited. Mustang SVO Koni's can be revalved & modified to fit. The KYB's are the best still on the shelves.

We will continue to make do with Mark VII parts issues and cost. :rolleyes:

[Cardea Blue]

ok

~blackbob~