Lincoln Paint Problem 90's Lincoln's

[jack miller]

Hi,

I am trying to see how many of you out there had a paint problem with your Lincoln? My 91 LSC has been in my family since new in late 1990 and we had to have the car repainted 2 times and I have to get it done again since new. The paint started peeling and fading in 1994. I see Fords/Lincolns & Mercs of the same era with the same paint problems for years. This time I have to get the hood and trunk stripped as the original coat is causing all of the problems.
Thanks
Jack

[JoshMcMadMac]

Yep, I had the same problem. Check out the pictures in my sig and you can see what it did. The same as most as far as I can tell, the clear came off the hood and the top of the car.

[Jon90LSC]

The clear peeling was a pretty common problem about that time. If you don't get all of the old paint off, it will still peel from below your new paint.

[parks911]

yep, I got paint peeling also.

[Desert Stallion]

Funny thing is my tan '85 has near perfect paint with the exception of a few door and rock dings, and my grey '86 has been repainted at least once and it looks like crap!

[parks911]

I don't remember when & why, but I do remember something from the 80's! The government fource auto makers to switch paints. Maybe this is the era when that happened & they were still working the bugs out.

[pro-five-oh]

quote:Originally posted by parks911:
I don't remember when & why, but I do remember something from the 80's! The government fource auto makers to switch paints. Maybe this is the era when that happened & they were still working the bugs out.

Sometime around 1991 the EPA required the auto manufacturers to use a different paint process (or was it a different paint) and it pretty much screwed up all cars from the early 90s that were made in America.

From what I've seen on the streets, even some of them Hondas made in Ohio seem to have that problem. ;)

[lincolnmania]

hmmm... paint is excellent on my 86 towncar, but on my 88 bronco2 it has all peeled and is rust and primer

[MarkVa1]

Anyone tried using the HOK sealer on top of the original paint? I've read at a few places that if you're not changing the original color, you can sand and then start with the HOK sealer rather than a primer, then go with your bc/cc. Just curious if anyone had tried this method.

[Jon90LSC]

You will want to sand the original paint to gat it to bite. Sanding will also smooth the surface. Everywhere where the clear is gone, there will be surface imperfections. Spraying just a sealer on there will not work for those two reasons. It will not be smoth, and it will not stay on as there will need to be a mechanical bond between the layers (original and new).

keep in mind there was a reason that the paint peeled to begin with. You will need to fix that in order to repeat it.

Ideally, the original paint that is coming of woud seperate from the E-coat and leave a nice surface ready to scuff and shoot over. However, since we don't live in a perfect world, the surface will need to be prepared properly. Trying to use the factory e-coat is the smartest way to go. It is applied similar to powder coating; that is it is applied to negatively charged metal (the car body) and cured in an oven of sorts. That is bar none the best primer to start with. Ford graciously provides it for free, as well.

Unfortunately, you might not be able to save it all. In stripping teh peeling paint off, you might get too deep. The best way to go is to strip the peeling base and clear coats, while trying to be careful to just scuff the underlying primers. Use a self etching primer such as DuPont's VariPrime on the bare metal areas, then come back with an epoxy primer/sealer, such as DuPont's Korlar. it is a two part epoxy sealer, and is pretty tough. From there, you can topcoat as you wish. keep in mind these steps do not include bodywork, that will need to be done before the primer is sprayed.

This concludes tonight's small dissertation on peeling finishes.

[marcseven]

My 86 LSC (hood, roof and trunk)still looked showroom new when I got rid of it last month (the doors were shot). Although there is no rust on my 90, the paint job is crap. I am currently sanding my hood down to metal and starting over again (no easy task). I hope that takes care of the problem.

[a1966comet]

You will want to sand the original paint to gat it to bite. Sanding will also smooth the surface. Everywhere where the clear is gone, there will be surface imperfections. Spraying just a sealer on there will not work for those two reasons. It will not be smoth, and it will not stay on as there will need to be a mechanical bond between the layers (original and new).

keep in mind there was a reason that the paint peeled to begin with. You will need to fix that in order to repeat it.

Ideally, the original paint that is coming of woud seperate from the E-coat and leave a nice surface ready to scuff and shoot over. However, since we don't live in a perfect world, the surface will need to be prepared properly. Trying to use the factory e-coat is the smartest way to go. It is applied similar to powder coating; that is it is applied to negatively charged metal (the car body) and cured in an oven of sorts. That is bar none the best primer to start with. Ford graciously provides it for free, as well.

Unfortunately, you might not be able to save it all. In stripping teh peeling paint off, you might get too deep. The best way to go is to strip the peeling base and clear coats, while trying to be careful to just scuff the underlying primers. Use a self etching primer such as DuPont's VariPrime on the bare metal areas, then come back with an epoxy primer/sealer, such as DuPont's Korlar. it is a two part epoxy sealer, and is pretty tough. From there, you can topcoat as you wish. keep in mind these steps do not include bodywork, that will need to be done before the primer is sprayed.

This concludes tonight's small dissertation on peeling finishes.
Jon, seeing your post is almost 3 years old....I still have a question I hope you can answer.
Do you sand(or wet sand) the primer\sealer before putting down the base coat?
Thanks for you post!!!!

[Philip]

Anybody out there remember F/L/M cars from the mid-1970's with the silver metallic paint and burgundy vinyl half tops? They didn't peel, but simply rusted from the center out and the tops all split and peeled. Every damned one. Each generation has it's demons, lol. Why is it always the nice looking ones that are the pains? Heh!

[LuxurySportCoupe]

Paint? Who needs paint?

I had that problem, clear coat peeling BAD on the pillars and trunk, then my passenger door got smashed, replaced it with a red one. Painted it black, then last easter a dear killed itself with the front of my car, head a gold header panel and fender, said the hell with it and spraybombed the whole thing primer black.

http://myspace-636.vo.llnwd.net/00208/63/65/208555636_l.jpg

http://myspace-753.vo.llnwd.net/00208/35/75/208555753_l.jpg

It works for now. :D

[CheeseSteakJim]

Personally, I love the dull, flat black of a car completely covered in primer. :D My friend has an old Buick that's completely black. It makes it look really evil.

[Philip]

Agreed. Rolling version of stealth bomber, very military.

[LuxurySportCoupe]

Alot of people tell me that.

Paint would make a world of difference.

Looks good enough for now. :cool:

[NYC LS8]

Looks very F-Body-ish ;)

And to answer the initial question - my '87 (gray) doesn't have that peeling problem at all - and I haven't waxed the car in years. Weird.

[LuxurySportCoupe]

:nono:

I see more stangs/fords around here the f-bods primered. :spank:

[LuxurySportCoupe]

:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

That is freakin hilarious ^

[93towncarexec]

I was always told that the paint problem was because they used an experimental water-based clearcoat.

Of course, it was a failure. There may be some truth to the EPA story, but I'm not sure.

If you don't get rid of this clearcoat by having it taken down to the metal, all the re-painting in the world won't fix this problem.

Sand it down to metal, then primer and repaint, and you'll have a car that will look great forever.

[LuxurySportCoupe]

The clearcoat sands right off.

Why do you say you gotta strip it to the metal to repaint it?

Painting a Lincoln should be no different then any other car.

[ekooke]

Around 1985, the Fed EPA mandated the removal of Lead from automotive paints. Paint job durability wasn't the same until the mid '90s, when substitutes for Lead were found that actually worked long-term.

[Jon90LSC]

Jon, seeing your post is almost 3 years old....I still have a question I hope you can answer.
Do you sand(or wet sand) the primer\sealer before putting down the base coat?
Thanks for you post!!!!It depends on the paint system you are using. If the sealer has sat for a while (say, overnight), you will want to go in and rough it up a bit, with a scotchbrite pad or something similar. Usually, by the time you fnish the sealer application, get out of the booth, and clean your paint gun, the sealer has had enough time to flash, and you can start putting down the base coat.

[Jon90LSC]

The clearcoat sands right off.

Why do you say you gotta strip it to the metal to repaint it?

Painting a Lincoln should be no different then any other car.The clear does sand right off. If you were to clear over the base that is left, it would appear splotchy between what was exposed and what was not, IF you could just get only the clear off. Besides, if you are going to go through all of the aggrivation to paint something, it is a whole lot cheaper in the long run to do it right the first time.

[Jackup460]

You might want to paint over that primer with a flat black. Primer still allows moister to pass causing rust.

[the Andrew]

Hi,

I am trying to see how many of you out there had a paint problem with your Lincoln? My 91 LSC has been in my family since new in late 1990 and we had to have the car repainted 2 times and I have to get it done again since new. The paint started peeling and fading in 1994. I see Fords/Lincolns & Mercs of the same era with the same paint problems for years. This time I have to get the hood and trunk stripped as the original coat is causing all of the problems.
Thanks
Jack


I had a silver 91 towncar that faded up in the front of the hood, heartbreaking.

[Robert Hartling]

Sometime around 1991 the EPA required the auto manufacturers to use a different paint process (or was it a different paint) and it pretty much screwed up all cars from the early 90s that were made in America.

From what I've seen on the streets, even some of them Hondas made in Ohio seem to have that problem. ;)

Actually Chrysler had that problem too. And yes it was the government forcing manufacturers to switch to low volatility paint. ie) less chemicals. Most switch to water based paints, some still used solvents but different (more organic). The problem was that it was new paint processes from the paint companies. That is why the car companies did not want to do anything under warranty, as they wanted the paint manufacturers to step up and cover the costs of the paint delamination problems. I worked for Chrysler as a Service rep in 95 and most of the time I was going from dealership to dealership looking at customer cars. The problems with chrysler was Silver paints, and light blue! And as a rule we would only cover 33% of a paint problem. And we wanted the dealer and customer to chip in 33% each. The problem was that the paint took years to flake off! And basically the cars were roughly 5 years old, and out of warranty. And the fact that customers with a five year old or older vehicle never came to the dealerships for servicing or problems anymore. So to Chrysler they were no longer " a good Customer" and wanted the company to paint there vehicles so they looked new again. And I tend to agree! Sorry.

[2manymarks]

I have had about 12-15 Mark VII's in the last eight years. Some had serious fading/wear and some not. It must depend somewhat on where they spend most of their time. At the current time, I still have decent original paint with very little or no noticeable wear on my 88BB(light Sandlewood), 89BB(light Titanium) and 89LSC(Currant Red). My 91 LSC red S/E does have a few small "peel" spots, but without the fading or wear. I have rather severe wear/fade on my 89 LSC (Medium Sandlewood) and the 90 LSC gray S/E. The 88 LSC (light Sandlewood) donor car is just dull-doesn't get much care. The white 90BB that was just sold had been repainted and I can't say.

[DustyLBottoms]

Have you guys noticed it's almost only on horizontal surfaces?

[2manymarks]

Yes, is true, "Almost" is the operative word here.

[nailfoot]

Have you guys noticed it's almost only on horizontal surfaces?

Which is why when I wax my car, the hood, top, and trunk get two coats. I feel like Biff.

[worldkeepsakes]

Does anybody remember those 70s mopars, You know the ones that the tops of the front fenders used to RUST off of? And you worry about paint fade???

[Mark D.]

OK, so when I first bought my early 90's model towncar, I decided to use rubbing compund to get some small tree sap spots off of the entire car. Well I didnt know the destructive nature of rubbing compound and a year and a half leater, my clear is oxidizing badly in all the spots I rubbed the hardest. Well I learned my leson after much research, but need to repair my problem. There are so many opinions on painting and repainting cars, so I would like yours. I dont have the $1800 to have it painted at the local paintshop, well I do but its a bit more than I am willing to spend. My black base coat is in great condition still, and I plan on having it proffesionaly re-sprayed, but I would like to do body work on a few dings, and I would like to take care of ll the prep work (sanding, masking, primer/sealer, sanding, etc.) I have looked online and went to the local libraries but I was hoping some pro's would like to weigh in on the situation. So my question is this: How would I go about prepping the car to have a base/clear layed on it. Also, any informative sites would help me out, I would hate to put all this work into it, and have my new paint job peel off because I didnt sand it properlyor used to fine of grade sandpaper or something. Thanks allot

[cason1]

Do a google search on repainting cars and painting cars. I have a stack of how-to's about 5 inches thick at home from those google searches. I really got interested when I first needed to repaint my front bumper. I bought the Duplicolor spray can the first time it needed to be done but didn't fix anything, just cleaned it and sprayed it. Looked fine for a few months but soon wouldn't come clean anymore. I am in the process now of fixing all the trouble spots on the front bumper and using my cheapy paint gun to respray the whole bumper cover. For any parts that may experience flexing, be sure to have a flex additive put in or the paint will crack.

[CheeseSteakJim]

Do a google search on repainting cars and painting cars. I have a stack of how-to's about 5 inches thick at home from those google searches. I really got interested when I first needed to repaint my front bumper. I bought the Duplicolor spray can the first time it needed to be done but didn't fix anything, just cleaned it and sprayed it. Looked fine for a few months but soon wouldn't come clean anymore. I am in the process now of fixing all the trouble spots on the front bumper and using my cheapy paint gun to respray the whole bumper cover. For any parts that may experience flexing, be sure to have a flex additive put in or the paint will crack.
What are some examples of parts that flex?

[Dereck]

What are some examples of parts that flex?

Hi CheesesteakJim

The whole car flexes under the stresses of everyday use and temperature change.

Ever wondered why the hub caps fly off cars during a Hollywood car chase? It is because the wheels distrort and pops the hub cap off.

Regards

Dereck

[2manymarks]

What are some examples of parts that flex?

The filler pieces front and rear above the bumpers.

[nailfoot]

What are some examples of parts that flex?

The biggest, commonly overlooked flexing part in one of these big Towncars is the driver.

[Mark D.]

Yea, Ive googled up a million and 1 things on painting to, but someones first hand knowledge is always better. I like to know why I am doing what I am doing! And I hate conflicting tips: "finish with a 800 grit for a smooth finish for your topcoat" and then "finish with a 400 grit so your paint has something to bite into" So its a little confusing

[cason1]

Yea, Ive googled up a million and 1 things on painting to, but someones first hand knowledge is always better. I like to know why I am doing what I am doing! And I hate conflicting tips: "finish with a 800 grit for a smooth finish for your topcoat" and then "finish with a 400 grit so your paint has something to bite into" So its a little confusing

400 grit is way to rough to finish with. Either 600 or 800 will give plenty of bite for new paint. My friend who paints cars finishes his with 600 grit before each coat of primer and paint. Check www.eastwood.com . They have some videos and such you can purchase to improve your skills or teach you the basics. Whatever your current skill level is.


On the 90+ Towncars, the bumper covers are plastic and can flex quite a bit. Especially if you pull them off to paint them and put them back on. They will bend enough without breaking that the part that points to the tires normally can be pointing 180* from one another. Factory paint during this held up fine, my spray can job didn't. No it wasn't intentional. I was trying to pick it up and it rolled on me.