The Lienerts love the Zephyr, so what's your problem?

[pro-five-oh]

http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=22062

I'll keep my opinions about the journalist (the lady of the duo) to myself, but let me just say that this kind of cornball journalism isn't helping out the Zephyr's image any.

[Sysanalyst]

http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=22062

I'll keep my opinions about the journalist (the lady of the duo) to myself, but let me just say that this kind of cornball journalism isn't helping out the Zephyr's image any.

The guy says it all in one small fragment of a sentence:

"After all, we're not talking about a performance car here"

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

[Rick2]

I like this line: "It already has one of the most beautiful cabins in the class, miles ahead of Cadillac and Mercedes."

I agree it beats the Caddy hands down. In my opinion the design of the interior is pretty, though the Mercedes (C class I assume) is the one that is "miles ahead." Lincoln is getting closer, but they say it like it is a fact, when really it is a matter of opinion.

[pro-five-oh]

Beautiful is a relative term. If it had the quality plastics of a $20,000 Toyota Camry instead of the current here-and-there smatterings of the good stuff, it might actually be worthy of saying its better than Mercedes.

Then again, its pretty hard NOT to have a richer interior than a Caddy. :)

[the Andrew]

Beautiful is a relative term. If it had the quality plastics of a $20,000 Toyota Camry instead of the current here-and-there smatterings of the good stuff, it might actually be worthy of saying its better than Mercedes.

Then again, its pretty hard NOT to have a richer interior than a Caddy. :)


Yeah lets not forget GM is building those cars and I have to say the pontiacs and the Caddis have the most horribly cheap interior materials. AND Don't shine light on mercedes They are still in their cheap run since 1999.

[towncar95]

i kinda like the car, but it does not really stand out.
also i dont like that its built on a mazda platform. sorry but lincoln should be on an american platform.

[Sysanalyst]

i kinda like the car, but it does not really stand out.
also i dont like that its built on a mazda platform. sorry but lincoln should be on an american platform.

More importantly, it should look like a Lincoln. This thing looks absolutely silly. Shame on those Lincoln Zephyr designers, they should be the first to go during the next force reduction. They could have made this vehicle look more Lincoln-esque but decided to take the crappy rebadge route. Now if they put in a good engine, they would at least have a good performance ugly vehicle - only half bad. :rolleyes:

[towncar95]

have you seen the new look 2007 navigator?
it looks like a cross between a zephyr tail lights and a mazda mini van. ohh are we doomed at lincoln?
sysanalyst.... well the front looks like a lincoln conti grill from the 80's :)

[Sysanalyst]

2007 Navigator... Which grille, the upper or lower? The two grilles clash... Instead of trying to make an SUV look like a Mini Van, they should have rebadged a Windstar/Freestar into a Lincoln (like the Chrysler Town and Country) and made the Navigator a meaner 4X4 with with better offroad capabilities. How about an optional big butt chrome brush bar up front and around back. Todays Navigator looks pretty good - the 2007 is sickening in my humble opinion. Look at the Lexus LX470, still looks about the same after 10years, still commands top dollar, the money goes into the R&D to make the engine, drive train, electronics, and other systems bullet-proof, and most importantly; WILL RUN CIRCLES AROUND THE NAVIGATOR WHEN OFF ROAD. Ford wastes a lot of money on futile styling exercises that produce vehicles like; Zephyr, 2007 Navigator, Blackwood, and other recent lousy mistakes. Ford's new motto: Too little too late job 1.

[towncar95]

also forgot it looks like the nissan armada suv.
its too bad. the nav of now is a good looking suv. the only ting that bugs me is the tail light and how they are spilt. oh well lets hope for the best and get the worst. :)

[Philip]

When you look around, the Zephyr is a lot of upscale car for $29K.
Styling is an opinion thing, you either like it or you don't. To me, the interior is "Bam! love it." The rear end with the tail light styling is slightly evocative of the late Mark VIII's center neon reflector at night, that is the neon is a single unit, but at night, you see a separation in the center as if it were two lights. So I instantly identify with that. The front end is a slight departure for Lincoln cars, but then so was the first front drive Continental. I have to say it's grown on me, and unless they can come up with something hot and two-door again soon, I'll be looking into a Zephyr eventually, make mine black on black. Did I mention this was an affordable price for a luxury marque? Funny, I hear nobody dogging the LS (and as far as names go, up until 2000, the only thing you saw those letters on at Ford were the high-series Mercury vehicles, and we're complaining about names???) Now the LS is an attractive vehicle, but exactly what about it is "Lincoln Like" that is not there in the Zephyr? Style-wise, the Zephyr is easlily identified as Lincoln, the LS not so much. You cannot please all of the people all of the time, folks.

[Vitas]

When you look around, the Zephyr is ...

That is an interesting point of view.

[pro-five-oh]

Now the LS is an attractive vehicle, but exactly what about it is "Lincoln Like" that is not there in the Zephyr?
The LS will always be more of a Lincoln than the Zephyr.

It had a unique chassis shared with no other vehicle, except for a $50,000 Jag. (well the Tbird came later but it was to ugly and wierd for anyone to care about it) It had modern-day luxury car credentials from its engine, transmission, suspension, 50/50 balanced chassis...and lets not forget it was RWD, like a proper Lincoln. It wasn't a value proposition car to appeal to bean counters looking for a cheaply built V6 entry level sedan. It was a world-class luxury car with stellar performance and excellent luxury touches inside and out. Instead of blowing the doors off a Caddy CTS and Infiniti G35, Lincoln is now reduced to being a poser with an overgrown mexican made Mazda in the lineup.

At least the other Lincolns have had millions of dollars invested in them so they would not look and feel like a Fairmont, Taurus, Jaguar etc. Different engines, doors, rooflines, air suspensions, etc. Not so with this ride. Don't even get me started on the Mark LT. :)

Today's luxury car market is too competitive to not bring your "A" game to the table. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if that new large Hyundai sedan with 265hp will blow the doors off the Zephyr. Sad, really.

[Vitas]

The LS will always be more of a Lincoln than the Zephyr.


You are comparing a $30K car to a $45K car, 2/3 of the cost of the other. It is an unfair comparison.

Philip's post has inspired me to take another look at the Zephyr, especially after driving the '85 Valentino. I think that every Lincoln salesman should have a copy of Philip's post to show customers.

[pro-five-oh]

You are comparing a $30K car to a $45K car, 2/3 of the cost of the other. It is an unfair comparison.

Its impossible to get an LS V6 for $45k unless its gold plated. And a nicely loaded V8 sport vs. a Zephyr is hardly a fair comparo. :) The V6 LS was about 33k MSRP until they stopped making it in 2005. Invoice was about 30k. Obviously Ford is more interested in the Zephyr's cheap-to-build and cheap to sell value proposition, but that won't fly with me.

For $3000 more the LS V6 is so much better than the Zephyr (except for the seats) it's not even funny. And anyone looking to spend around 30K for a new car isn't gonna bat an eye at a sticker price of $2000-3000 more for a more appealing car. Sure the Ford loyalists will not believe this, but then again I'll bet the Zephyr will not get conquest buyers like the LS did. Now they get to shop the wide variety of G35s, 3-series, ESs, 300s, etc.

[Vitas]

Its impossible to get an LS V6 for $45k unless its gold plated.

On a recent New England Lincolns mini-meet Jason and I decided that we needed to take a LS for a test drive, because I had never driven one. The list was around 47K, which the salesman explained could be had for about 8K less. That car really flew, but I can just see the citations piling up. -g-

[pro-five-oh]

On a recent New England Lincolns mini-meet Jason and I decided that we needed to take a LS for a test drive, because I had never driven one. The list was around 47K, which the salesman explained could be had for about 8K less. That car really flew, but I can just see the citations piling up. -g-
That had to be a V8 model, which they still make...at least they do for a few more weeks. :(

[towncar95]

sorry but lincoln does not belong on a foreign platform.

[pro-five-oh]

sorry but lincoln does not belong on a foreign platform.

Unless its a Jag platform. :)

Though since that platform was made for both Lincoln and Jag at the same time, is it really foreign???

[pepsi2185]

Im not impressed by the foreign market. LX470, HAH!!! that thing is a margain piece if I have ever seen one. Not to mention ANYTHING that infinity kicks out. I hardly think that the foreign market is making constant strides in longevity. When you are looking for flaws in anything, you will definately find them.

[GorgeZeph]

I just read several of the post under the Zephyr forum. I understand that everyone is allowed thier opinion, but I differ with the common wisdom on the Zephyr. The Zephyr is as far from being a Millan as you can get. I checked both out before I bought my Zephyr. The Zephyr is pure Lincoln. I grew up with my family buying Lincolns. The ride and quality is there. The front end is classic Lincoln (I do still miss the hood ornament). The tail is a little different, but you get used to it. The interior is wonderful. I love the figured maple on the dash.

Looking at the MKS, it looks like the Zephyr front end is the future. Good, because I think the pseudo '63 front end will not resonate with many people. My family had a '63, so I'm not picking on it.... It just isn't the era that I think will be the retro-hit that the Mustang became. I would suggest that they look more to the late 60's Mark III. The grill and hump are classic. They must be because the aftermarket has sold many "Continental Kits" for other cars.

Before you cut the Zephyr, drive one. It is worthy. Now do we want to debate the truck Lincolns??

I think that the Zephyr is at least as good as my brother's BMW, Lexus, or Mercedes. Don't believe the hype about these makes, Lincoln is catching up and surpassing in many areas.

The Zephyr is exactly what it is supposed to be.... A entry level Lincoln that will attract a whole new group into the Lincoln fold. I found that out listening to comments at the auto show. It is a winner.

[pro-five-oh]

Welcome! You are our first Zephyr member! Congrats!

This is a brand new day.:)

[Vitas]

Welcome to the board, GorgeZeph!!!

[pepsi2185]

Welcome gorge. Im glad you shared with us your take on the zephyr. Im glad to see ford putting more engineering into their vehicles. Im glad you werent chased off by previous posts and I look forward to more posts.

[GorgeZeph]

It takes more that a little sour grapes to phase me... Obviously, the previous posts were misinformed:)

[Philip]

You are comparing a $30K car to a $45K car, 2/3 of the cost of the other. It is an unfair comparison.

Philip's post has inspired me to take another look at the Zephyr, especially after driving the '85 Valentino. I think that every Lincoln salesman should have a copy of Philip's post to show customers.

Jeez, thanks, Vitas! I always said if anybody could sell a Ford product, I could. BTW, your vintage Continentals in your pic are to die for!

GeorgeZeph: Congrats on the new car. As you've probably gathered by reading this thread, I like the new Zeph big time. And there hasn't been a hood onrnament on any Linc for many years until the most recent T/C restyle, it's just another piece of chrome to polish, anyway...lol. And yes, the truck is ridiculous...It's another "me too," that Mark LT.

[GorgeZeph]

I know there hasn't been a hood ornament for some time. It was just something I always liked.

I won't say that the trucks are ridiculous, just debatable. I won't put down any Lincoln. It may not be for me, but for someone out there, it is a dream come true..... Far be it for me to throw cold water on someones dream......

Oh, if you want a "fair" compairison..... try the Zeph against the Hyundai Azera. The Azera is $27,495 compared to the Zeph which is $28,745 (Kelly Blue book new car value). That's a $1250 (or 4%)difference to be driving a Lincoln! What a bargain!!!!

[Philip]

You're absolutely right. Don't throw water on someone else's dream. It's still weird to me that luxury car makers are doing trucks now. The Mark LT just hit me on a personal note as I figure the possibility of a proper successor to my Mark VIII is not going to happen now that the Mark name is on that truck. Who knows what will happen in the future, though.

The Zephyr is a vital part of the rebirth of Lincoln. We're competing in a global market and every luxury marque has an entry level car. From Lincoln to Lexus and all in between, something has to attract buyers of all ages to the brand and they hope those buyers step up the next trading time. It hasn't hurt Cadillac, M-B, BMW or Lexus one little bit, so why is it such a big problem for so many members on this board (that aren't even in the market for anything beyond the next engine mod--sorry, had to) that Lincoln has this wonderful little gem in it's lineup now? As before, it's a lot of upscale car for $29K. What's more, it's not a "settle for" car, it's a desirable car that just happens to be reasonably affordable as luxury brands go. It's precisely what appeals to me right now at Lincoln until they build a coupe again, if they ever do. All just a matter of opinion.

[Vitas]

And there hasn't been a hood onrnament on any Linc for many years until the most recent T/C restyle, it's just another piece of chrome to polish, anyway...lol.

A Lincoln HAS to have the hood ornament. -g-

Seriously. It helps you point the car on the road. We are going to have to figure out which existing Lincoln ornament would be best for the Zephyr.

[Rick2]

Has anyone seen the new ad for the Zephyr? Well I have, and Lincoln is actually quoting this very article, lol. "...the interior is miles ahead of cadillac and mercedes...":rolleyes:

[pro-five-oh]

Has anyone seen the new ad for the Zephyr? Well I have, and Lincoln is actually quoting this very article, lol. "...the interior is miles ahead of cadillac and mercedes...":rolleyes:
I gotta agree with that right there...Cadillacs may look different and be RWD, but man, they sure are cheap looking. And Mercedes' C-class isn't very good at all these days in the quality department.

[Philip]

A Lincoln HAS to have the hood ornament. -g-

Seriously. It helps you point the car on the road. We are going to have to figure out which existing Lincoln ornament would be best for the Zephyr.


It also helps to show you where the end of the hood is in parking situations..heh heh. This is precisely why my Gram ('89 T/C) hates my Mark VIII.

On a serious note, all Mercedes except for roadsters and sport versions carry a hood ornament, always have. Not really comparing cars here, just heritage. Defying Lincoln's larger than life emblems these days, a smaller than usual version of the star, either vertical or retro horizontal would actually fit in on the Zephyr but they'd have to lose the emblem in the grille if the hood ornament was incorportated (same needs to be done with the Town Car) to avoid looking like a custom shop add-on.

Nice to see other people on here are recognizing good advertising and backing off the vehicle that's the subject matter. I still say it's a lot of car for $29K. Just make mine black like Henry Ford intended. I always liked his quote about Model T colors.

[pro-five-oh]

Defying Lincoln's larger than life emblems these days, a smaller than usual version of the star, either vertical or retro horizontal would actually fit in on the Zephyr but they'd have to lose the emblem in the grille if the hood ornament was incorportated (same needs to be done with the Town Car) to avoid looking like a custom shop add-on.

I agree, though my 83 Continental has a star on the grille and the hood. I like it.

The Zephyr is too conservative/middle of the road in the styling department to get away with a hood ornament. Not to mention the FWD sedan proportions don't give you a big hood to let the ornament shine. Lincoln would need to rethink their design if hood ornaments become a high priority.

[Philip]

I forgot about the earlier FWD Continental's "dual emblem." Hey, didn't the '94 have a restyled grille? Actually I always thought the traditional Lincoln emblem (it's been slightly altered as of late, very slightly) was very low key. Conservative in a way that Cadillac's never was. The Mercedes three point star is also conservative, and styling on their cars was never exactly in-your-face until cars of late. Because of style details is the reason I mentioned the retro horizontal star, like they used in the sixties. It's all relative, I guess. And everybody knows I like the Zephyr just the way it is, although the show car had a more stylized rear end that I really liked. The interior is what really blows my mind the most. It's very rich.

[Philip]

Hey, my bad on the Continental thing. '83 was Fox bodied. I was thinking about the other ones. This is what I get for trying to think at all this late at night...LOL. Cheers.

[GorgeZeph]

It's funny the little things we remember. The hood and the slight wave effect at the C panel come to mind. I still like the hump even. Even Rolls keeps what works. Lincoln could have a worse model.

[pro-five-oh]

Hey, my bad on the Continental thing. '83 was Fox bodied. I was thinking about the other ones. This is what I get for trying to think at all this late at night...LOL. Cheers.

LOL, since you mention it...the 88-94 Contis had that same dual logos and it looked pretty nice on that car. So maybe it would look ok on a Zephyr too. ;)

[cason1]

Lincoln = big, RWD, V-8 cruisers. Not entry level V-6 Fwd Mazda's. I have never been big on the LS styling either and none of the FWD Conti's. The Mark LT is a laughing stock. The Blackwood is my choice for Lincoln truck. The Navigator and Aviator were wonderful vehicles. Test drove an 02 Navi a few years back and it was great. styling is different than anything else and looks good. Ok, done for now.

[Philip]

[QUOTE=cason1]Lincoln = big, RWD, V-8 cruisers. Not entry level V-6 Fwd Mazda's. QUOTE]
Anybody here remember Chrysler (gasp!) in the late '70's-early '80's? This is about survival.

We all love our traditional Lincolns, and if I could have anything in the world, I'd love a showroom new '69 Continental Mark (II or III?) now that's a sled designed for two. I love the '89 Town Car, same sentiment, But that doesn't fly in today's market. Rolls-Royce Phantom is a sled, but that's an apples to oranges comparison. Everything has to change, sometimes it's an easy adjustment, sometimes not. Inevitable, though.

[pro-five-oh]

I love the '89 Town Car, same sentiment, But that doesn't fly in today's market. Rolls-Royce Phantom is a sled, but that's an apples to oranges comparison. Everything has to change, sometimes it's an easy adjustment, sometimes not.

Unless you build the Chrysler 300, its a sled with RWD and the most horrible build quality out there...but that POS still sells like hotcakes.

Maybe Ford should...oh that's right, they only build cars to fit on Mazda and Volvo chassis these days. ;)

[Philip]

Again, survival in todays market. According to the automotive press, the 300 is a large percentage E-class Mercedes, and it's really not that long, just looks imposing. They have to share parts to survive. How many parts on anyone's Lincoln here do not say "FORD" on them and how many of those parts are shared? For that matter, how many Lincolns of late are not shared chassis with Ford's other divisions? LOL.

[GorgeZeph]

You know, I like conservative. Put another way, "understated". The auto press always marveled at the euro brands because they were subtle. Why is it that we don't allow US manufactures the same treatment? Is the GM trick of flashy, graphic stickers, the hope for the US automaker??? Check the Dodge and GM models of late. The Zeph is conservative. I equate that to classy. And, an appropriate hood ornament will be nice (anyone know where I can get one)?

[GorgeZeph]

Lincoln = big, RWD, V-8 cruisers. Not entry level V-6 Fwd Mazda's. I have never been big on the LS styling either and none of the FWD Conti's. The Mark LT is a laughing stock. The Blackwood is my choice for Lincoln truck.


So happy that Lincoln isn't that narrowly focused. Everyone has their own dreams and desires. Mine is my Zephyr. I like the Town Car, and can understand the SUV's.... To me, my Zephyr is just plain elegant and sexy. Different strokes......

[pepsi2185]

I priced a hood ornament for my 88 a few years ago and it was like 45 bucks from the dealership.

[GorgeZeph]

What model Lincoln's ornament do you think would look right??? I was also looking at the grill. Maybe possible to grind (ouch) the old logo off the grill and repaint with matching satin paint. Then the new one on the hood would look right..... This is beyond my skill level (and I could never bring myself to "grind" on my Zeph). I was thinking narrow, vertically directed ornament. 3" maybe????

[Vitas]

What model Lincoln's ornament do you think would look right???

Different ornaments have different angles for the Lincoln that they were made for. If the one you choose is close but not the perfect angle you may be able to shim it slightly. If you have a digital camera post the side view of the nose and we can try to figure it out from there.

1972 - 1976, 1977 -1979, 1980 - 1983 Mark series, or 2003-2006 TC ornaments are probably your best choice to choose from. Study it well before you do it.

[Vitas]

Try the 2003 - 2006 TC ornament first. Go to a Lincoln dealership on a Saturday and ask the parts department to pull one so that you can bring it out to your car outside the door and see if it will work.

Maybe the next best attempt is a 1990 - 1997 TC ornament (if they had one).

[pro-five-oh]

What model Lincoln's ornament do you think would look right??? I was also looking at the grill. Maybe possible to grind (ouch) the old logo off the grill and repaint with matching satin paint. Then the new one on the hood would look right..... This is beyond my skill level (and I could never bring myself to "grind" on my Zeph). I was thinking narrow, vertically directed ornament. 3" maybe????
The best ornament by a long shot is the 03-present Town Car ornament. Has a slight rake and is small enough to not drown out the rest of the front end. There's enough depth under the hood for it, as long as you don't drill a hole in the hood right above the metal radiator support.

You can also try the V6 Continental ornament that was basically a sheet of plastic with a metal frame, but I don't think it would look right.

[pro-five-oh]

Again, survival in todays market. According to the automotive press, the 300 is a large percentage E-class Mercedes, and it's really not that long, just looks imposing. They have to share parts to survive.

No arguement on that point, its basically the last generation (late 90s) E-class with a new engine and body. The problem is that Chrysler's use of platform sharing sits well with the public and they are attracted to it for its ability to remain true to American automotive values.

3 months in production and the Zephyr's already got a great lease rate on it (tell your friends, its even better than that Family Plan crap), but the fact is that the comprable $30,000 Chrysler needs almost no incentives to drive off the showroom floor.

Its not about platform sharing, its about how you do it. :)

[zephyrized]

As a new Zephyr owner I agree with "GorgeZeph".
I test drove 15-20 other vehicles, all makes and models before buying my Zephyr. It was the clear winner.
Just the right combination of smooth ride, cornering, looks and luxury for me.:)
Check out my Zephyr site: www.zephyr.com (http://www.2006zephyr.com)

[Wolfe_83Conti]

I saw the Zephyr at a car show last weekend. I have this one question. Why is the radiator suspended by a plastic frame?! Call me old-fashioned, but a metal frame is the only acceptable type. I didn't buy my '83 Conti with its carrier-deck front-end for nothing.

Regarding hood ornaments: I'm eyeing a Lincoln-style greyhound in JC Whitney for my Conti. As soon as I get the paint sorted out, it's going on the fascia.

[pro-five-oh]

I saw the Zephyr at a car show last weekend. I have this one question. Why is the radiator suspended by a plastic frame?! Call me old-fashioned, but a metal frame is the only acceptable type. I didn't buy my '83 Conti with its carrier-deck front-end for nothing.
The Conti's front end is fiberglass on top and plastic on the bottom, ya know. ;)

Plastic radiator combined with fantastic R&D in plastic manufacturing make that frame a great idea. I betcha its both lighter and stiffer than the stamped metal part on our Contis. Doesn't rust either. Both get destroyed in a frontal collision, its not like metal is significantly better.

[Wolfe_83Conti]

pro-five-Oh wrote: "The Conti's front end is fiberglass on top and plastic on the bottom, ya know."

True, but the radiator is hanging on metal. I'll give the Zephyr about 10 years before stress cracks start forming on the frame. Extraneous body extensions aren't that important, but my engine bay can't have plastic supporting the critical bits. Plastic breaks, especially from heat exposure.

[pro-five-oh]

I'll give the Zephyr about 10 years before stress cracks start forming on the frame. Extraneous body extensions aren't that important, but my engine bay can't have plastic supporting the critical bits. Plastic breaks, especially from heat exposure.

My friend's '96 Sable has that same plastic assembly (it was the first car, IIRC) and under the hood, its had the hardest 196,000 miles you've seen. The radiator support is fine. I'm convinced.

[Wolfe_83Conti]

I just feel safer in a metal-framed car than a plastic one. Granted, my Saturn has polymer fenders, but its frame is metal. I bought the Conti because it's big. I wouldn't feel safe in a Zephyr.

[pro-five-oh]

I feel safer in a Zephyr than I do a Conti. 3400lbs with six airbags, ABS, and it isn't based on a Ford Fairmont. Sorry, just being a stinker. ;)

[pro-five-oh]

Oh, if you wanna learn more about the radiator support, read this:

http://img.textbookx.com/images/large/13/0393318613.jpg

Really makes you feel proud that some innovations still come from American minds, no matter how strong Toyota gets. :)

[Wolfe_83Conti]

I feel safer in a Zephyr than I do a Conti. 3400lbs with six airbags, ABS, and it isn't based on a Ford Fairmont. Sorry, just being a stinker. ;)

4200 lbs, a steel frame chassis, 5 1/2 feet (at least) between me and the front bumper, and a body that is not designed to collapse like a wad of tinfoil. My Conti's trunk is longer than the front of the Zephyr. Sorry, but I stand by my gal here.

I will always have more faith in the old Lincolns than anything modern. A few years ago over this way, an early '80s TC was front-ended by an Acura that was going over 100MPH. The elderly gentlemen in that Lincoln survived with only minor injuries, the car's damage halted at the firewall. The Acura, with its "crumple zone" technology, was reduced to four feet of compressed metal and nobody in that car survived. I rest my case.

[Wolfe_83Conti]

Anyway, how many 'V'-engined FWD car owners can tune up their car without having to rotate the engine forward to get at the rear sparks (pre-'86 E-body GMs notwithstanding)? That's another reason I love my Conti, I can work on it without going to a garage. FWD 6s and 8s should have been killed a long time ago.

[Rick2]

4200 lbs, a steel frame chassis, 5 1/2 feet (at least) between me and the front bumper, and a body that is not designed to collapse like a wad of tinfoil. My Conti's trunk is longer than the front of the Zephyr. Sorry, but I stand by my gal here.

I will always have more faith in the old Lincolns than anything modern. A few years ago over this way, an early '80s TC was front-ended by an Acura that was going over 100MPH. The elderly gentlemen in that Lincoln survived with only minor injuries, the car's damage halted at the firewall. The Acura, with its "crumple zone" technology, was reduced to four feet of compressed metal and nobody in that car survived. I rest my case.

LOL!! I hear that! These cars are not called tanks for nothing. I heard of many of these kind of wrecks, and have seen a few, with the same outcome. Driver of tank lives, driver of new high tech, light weight, modern car complete with crumple zones... DIES!

[pro-five-oh]

The Acura, with its "crumple zone" technology, was reduced to four feet of compressed metal and nobody in that car survived. I rest my case.
Ya know, your Conti has crumple zones too. ;) Like everything designed from the mid-70s, crumple zones absorb energy and dull the blow to the passengers. It was something Mercedes designed in the 60s and gave the technology to everyone out of a desire to save lives. (at least that's what they used to say in their advertisements) And they save lives, its not some "planned obsolence" conspiracy by the automakers to make you need a new car after a wreck.

Larger cars fare well because they have more inertia at speed than smaller cars. Its just physics. That's why they win.

[Philip]

Nothing is built the way it used to be, that's a fact. In many cases, though, that's an improvement when it comes to saving lives. If the car survives with minimal damage (in the case of the old Town Car) then it probably transmitted the impact to it's occupants. The goal today is for the passenger compartment to remain relatively intact, allowing the front and rear structures to collapse progressively to take the energy before you feel it. The ultimate safety feature in any case is size and weight. The larger vehicle is going to fare better then the smaller vehicle.

I may have a claustrophobic back seat and a trunk made only for a set of golf clubs, but I have to say I feel safe as hell in the Mark with it's width, weight and 207" length that's only seven inches shy of a Town Car. You got some serious front end up there between you and the obstacles...LOL. Next time around, I'm getting a Town Car or Grand Marquis for it's size, geezer image be darned (Marauder, anyone????)