I can't take it anymore

[Elemino]

I have loved this car... to much in fact. I've spent way more money on it than I paid for the car, and what it's worth. Still I'm plagued with murphy's law everywhere! I can't win for losing. EVERY SINGLE TIME I fix something, something else breaks. I finally get the engine running about 85 to 90% which is way better than before. It only has problems accelerating around 35 to 45 MPH now. Soon as I got that fixed, (and this way after countless other problems) my engine starts leaking coolant. I replace a recently replaced heater hose, it holds water for a few days and starts leaking again. I put in Bar's Stop Leak, it stops leaking for a few days, then the return radiator hose starts leaking. I fix it and it stops leaking for a few days. Now its losing fluid and I have no clue where its going. Theres no puddles under the car. The transmission has a slow leak, the power steering has a slow leak, the A/C doesnt work because the blend door won't stay on cold so theres no point in repairing the slow leak in the a/c lines. And tonight... I get in my car and try to open my glove to get out my radio plate... I squeeze the buttons and nothing happens. The damn latch is broken! I can't do this anymore. I've spent way too much already. I've replaced all 4 springs, all 4 shocks, both mufflers, one tail pipe, and some other stuff I've forgotten. And that is just stuff I've replaced since the beginning of this year!

Yes its a beautiful car, but I just can't take it anymore. This fall (or sooner if possible) Da Big Linc (DBL if you haven't already figured that out) is going up for sale! [Minus the $3800 stereo system of course.] I thought it was for me, and I've enjoyed American Muscle (limited as it is) for a while. Now its time to turn back to Japanese until I can afford a NEW American Car or SUV.

[cason1]

How sad. You also gotta take into account that the car is almost 20 years old too. Get you a 91-97 Towncar instead of going Jap. Get one that is well cared for with decent mileage and look in the tech articles to keep it on the road.:cool: Best bet, although I'm sure after 4 springs on your current car you won't want to, is to find a 90-97 with the rear sitting on the ground and offer then something for it and work from there. A lot of people go to the dealer and hear the $1000+ estimate from the stealership and dump the cars because the air springs/ compressor have gone out. Around $350 and about an hour or two and you have that all fixed and good as new and you can usually talk them down to next to nothing because of the back on the ground. They won't always go as low as you want or may know how much to fix it themselves and then you aren't so lucky but there are a ton of suckers out there that do that. Also, if you get a 90, it has the 5.0 and AOD like your current one has or the 91+'s got the 4.6L that they still use today. Good luck with whatever you do.

Edit: Sell the damn $3800 stereo and buy a decent Towncar!! ;)

[Elemino]

Thanx. Another TC is not an option unless its the 98's or newer. I like those, but to be honest with you. You also have to take into account my car is a well taken care of low mileage vehicle. It had been garaged its entire life and only had 95,000 original miles on the car when I bought it. Not to mention its pretty well fully loaded. Since then, I've replaced so many parts I can't remember them all. The biggest PITA was when I replaced the timing chain and sprocket (before necessary) back in Feb. Whoever buys it will probably love it seeing that its only little things that really needs fixing (except for the coolant leak). All I know is I have spent entirely too much, and that's it for me.

[cason1]

I wouldn't reccomend a 98+ honestly. My dad had a 2000 Grand Marquis and hated it to the point he bought a 96 Towncar. At 200k+ he traded the 96 for an 02 towncar and absolutely hates it too. After driving my brother's 91 Towncar the other day, he is wanting to trade the 02 on a 91-97 model again.:eek: I personally would get a 95 above all else simply from an elegance and durability standpoint. They look enough like the earlier 90's models but just a step up, the trans is the 4R70W instead of the AOD(pre 92) or AODE (92-94 had to replace mine at 145k) and it has the aluminum intake instead of the plastic ones of the 96-01 models. Plus, the 98+ has the COP that is very finicky. My dad has spent almost $1000 just on coils, plugs, and getting the system looked at by mechanics and it still isn't fixed. The 95 kinda beats them all hands down IMO.

As you can tell, we are a diehard Lincoln fans in my family
http://www.lincolnsonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43418

[87 town]

I have loved this car... to much in fact. I've spent way more money on it than I paid for the car, and what it's worth. Still I'm plagued with murphy's law everywhere! I can't win for losing. EVERY SINGLE TIME I fix something, something else breaks. I finally get the engine running about 85 to 90% which is way better than before. It only has problems accelerating around 35 to 45 MPH now. Soon as I got that fixed, (and this way after countless other problems) my engine starts leaking coolant. I replace a recently replaced heater hose, it holds water for a few days and starts leaking again. I put in Bar's Stop Leak, it stops leaking for a few days, then the return radiator hose starts leaking. I fix it and it stops leaking for a few days. Now its losing fluid and I have no clue where its going. Theres no puddles under the car. The transmission has a slow leak, the power steering has a slow leak, the A/C doesnt work because the blend door won't stay on cold so theres no point in repairing the slow leak in the a/c lines. And tonight... I get in my car and try to open my glove to get out my radio plate... I squeeze the buttons and nothing happens. The damn latch is broken! I can't do this anymore. I've spent way too much already. I've replaced all 4 springs, all 4 shocks, both mufflers, one tail pipe, and some other stuff I've forgotten. And that is just stuff I've replaced since the beginning of this year!

Yes its a beautiful car, but I just can't take it anymore. This fall (or sooner if possible) Da Big Linc (DBL if you haven't already figured that out) is going up for sale! [Minus the $3800 stereo system of course.] I thought it was for me, and I've enjoyed American Muscle (limited as it is) for a while. Now its time to turn back to Japanese until I can afford a NEW American Car or SUV.

I can relate to what you say. I think all of us can or have at some point or another. Just when you think all is done or nearly done, something else comes up.
Heres my take on it...I was driving my 87 tc all the way till about 1 year ago for an everyday car and was having on the road issues and towing and just not driving real confidently. Same problems as your car, timing chain, gaskets, etc etc etc and even had a major wiring short a couple winters ago. I have a ton of money in the car.
Sell it or keep it???? 1) at this point I would never get back all the money I have in it if I sold ....2) I love the car too much to sell it (had it since my two sons ( 20 and 23) were little kids) 3) I feel that in time, some years from now, that the cars that have survived will be worth more and more and more considering most of them are in the bone yard today for the reasons you already mentioned, so the more rare, the more valuable 4) It has become a hobby and passion for me, working on it and trying to get it right..... BUT, THE PRESSURE WAS TOO MUCH counting on it every single day....
MY Solution... I kept the lincoln and picked up another car for an everyday driver. I lucked out and picked up a 96 Sebring Convert from my manager at work for $1,000 last year. Had to put some money into it, but not a big deal. Could have went with a new car, but I hate payments.. ANYHOW, if you can afford to keep the lincoln and get another daily driver car you can then work on the lincoln as "you want to" and as you can afford to and at the same time, by not driving it every day, you will preserve it further and not run into as many issues as you would when beating it down daily.
I put mine in the garage when I needed, at the same time, a heater core and cat converters. Like $1,000 worth of work. By putting the car up and not being forced to use it I was able to do that work at my own pace and as finances allowed and am SO GLAD I didn't get rid of it. Anyhow, that is my take on it. Keep it for the long run but not rely on it daily.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

Thats a typical ford.
Im sorry, but im not a real fan of ford, although once in a while, the sun shines on the dogs ass
(me not know any good witty statements)

[87 town]

Thats a typical ford.
Im sorry, but im not a real fan of ford, although once in a while, the sun shines on the dogs ass
(me not know any good witty statements)

From you To Do List..For your leather treatment, the "best" I found was a product called "LEXOL". About $10. for bottle. You rub it in and it softens the leather and also seems to fill in cracks. Good stuff!

[Mr Wiggl3s]

That saddle stuff was from another thread on here, and i also need to get a entirly new drivers seat

[87 town]

That saddle stuff was from another thread on here, and i also need to get a entirly new drivers seat

"saddle soap" has been around forever. not putting it down, it does work. this Lexol stuff was reccommended to me a few years back from a classic car upholstery guy, so I tried it. It gets the leather real subtle. I think it has lanolin in it too.
The seat....you just have to cover all the bone yards for a good one for the cheapest way out and I know you are aware of bakersauto.com the big lincoln bone yard. to get it reupholstered to original is BIG bucks!

[Elemino]

Thats a typical ford.
Im sorry, but im not a real fan of ford, although once in a while, the sun shines on the dogs assThat's actually typical American Car, not just Ford. A friend of mine had a newer Cadillac Fleetwood, 95 I think. He had some major problems with that car. The minor ones were things like the muffler hanging, the speedometer stopped working, and major problems like the distributor had to be replaced. To be honest, I haven't seen many American cars from the 90's or earlier that weren't plagued with problems within the last 5 years. My Moto is buy Japanese cars, but drive American Trucks. :p

Keep it for the long run but not rely on it daily.I was thinking that earlier. I'd hate to get rid of it, but it's killing me financially. I was considering buy a 99 or newer Mercury Cougar. I know some people like them, and some don't. I personally actually like it because it is different. One of the reasons why I drive an '89 TC. Still, it gets way better gas mileage, and hopefully something 10 years newer won't have near as many problems. We'll see how it all plays out. I just know that if I do buy it, DBL will be sitting around for a while.

The good news is Pepboys has what looks like a replacement for my latch for $10. It doesn't have the chrome trim or the lock, but its definately much cheaper than the $54 price tag I was just quoted at the Lincoln dealership!

[87 town]

That's actually typical American Car, not just Ford. A friend of mine had a newer Cadillac Fleetwood, 95 I think. He had some major problems with that car. The minor ones were things like the muffler hanging, the speedometer stopped working, and major problems like the distributor had to be replaced. To be honest, I haven't seen many American cars from the 90's or earlier that weren't plagued with problems within the last 5 years. My Moto is buy Japanese cars, but drive American Trucks. :p

I was thinking that earlier. I'd hate to get rid of it, but it's killing me financially. I was considering buy a 99 or newer Mercury Cougar. I know some people like them, and some don't. I personally actually like it because it is different. One of the reasons why I drive an '89 TC. Still, it gets way better gas mileage, and hopefully something 10 years newer won't have near as many problems. We'll see how it all plays out. I just know that if I do buy it, DBL will be sitting around for a while.

The good news is Pepboys has what looks like a replacement for my latch for $10. It doesn't have the chrome trim or the lock, but its definately much cheaper than the $54 price tag I was just quoted at the Lincoln dealership!

Personally I like Cougras. They have style. $10. is a good deal for the latch. I paid about $35. for my latch at lincoln around 4 years ago when mine broke, same as yours did. Add some inflation and I guess $54. is about right.
If the time comes for me, I would like to get a classic car from the 60's or 70's. Something simple like a chevy nova, camaro or maybe an old ford torino or impala or old chevy belaire from the 60's without the power windows, doors and everything else that runs electrical. I'll take the little side vent windows for air conditioning and roller handle windows too and enjoy simple tune ups and parts changes. You know, keepin it basic, but these complicated Lincolns that survive the long run and are done right will be rare and valuable. It is a tough car to keep up, then again, I guess I've always liked a challenge and "need" a project car for my sanity since it is a passion for me!
A REAL CHALLENGE CAR...A mid 60's lincoln with the suicide doors and all sorts of electrical gadgets, proably rusty and needing interior and dash board and carpeting and who knows what else.. Put that baby back together! Then you really will have something. Lets paint it black and make it a convertable too..Yeah! Of course, money is always a factor. So, like all of us, we have to do what is best for ourselves. Good luck in whatever you decide!

[Elemino]

Yea, I was about to say my dream car is a 65-67 Continental... Suicide doors and all! :D Somebody was selling one on ebay not too long ago and I decided to borrow a few pics to get ideas for the day that I can get my own. Enjoy!

http://myspace-335.vo.llnwd.net/00849/53/38/849758335_l.jpg
http://myspace-023.vo.llnwd.net/00849/32/09/849759023_l.jpg
http://myspace-140.vo.llnwd.net/00849/04/10/849760140_l.jpg

[87 town]

Yea, I was about to say my dream car is a 65-67 Continental... Suicide doors and all! :D Somebody was selling one on ebay not too long ago and I decided to borrow a few pics to get ideas for the day that I can get my own. Enjoy!

http://myspace-335.vo.llnwd.net/00849/53/38/849758335_l.jpg
http://myspace-023.vo.llnwd.net/00849/32/09/849759023_l.jpg
http://myspace-140.vo.llnwd.net/00849/04/10/849760140_l.jpg

WOE........................THAT IS IT... YES....YES!!!!
How much were they asking? I like the blue, but imagine it in black!
When I was looking for my 2nd car in life, in like 1971 at age 16 or 17, I found the same car in a lot for like 3k or so in black. My ma was gonna co sign with me and I almost bought it, ended up with a 63 Riveria instead. Anyhow, I have never forgot that car. On HBO they have a show called "Entorauge" and they use this car in black during the beginning of the show. VERY COOL CAR!

[Elemino]

3K huh? :D This car sold for... are you ready??? ... $27,000! Yep, this car sold for $27,000... waaaaay more than the $3000 you could have purchased that one for. I love these cars so much, but that is a serious investment. But I would love for my future car to be a mirror image of this blue one. :D

[nailfoot]

Elemino,

Sorry to hear that your Lincoln is not working out for you. Take this into account though. Is it costing you what new car payments are gonna cost? Figure $300 a month for anything more than a Cavalier.

If you get a 1999 Cougar, figure $2500 to $3500 depending on condition. How far would $3500 go on your TC? I bet it would fix everything wrong with it and then some....and then you still have a much better car than a Cougar. Same deal with any Japanese car. Put the money into the TC that any other car would cost you and stick with that awesome Townie!

[87 town]

3K huh? :D This car sold for... are you ready??? ... $27,000! Yep, this car sold for $27,000... waaaaay more than the $3000 you could have purchased that one for. I love these cars so much, but that is a serious investment. But I would love for my future car to be a mirror image of this blue one. :D

yep, 27k doesnt even surprise me. they are rare. i should have bought the one for 3 k and just wrapped it up and stored it till now!
Some people actually do that. If you watch the auctions on cable tv in CA and FL they sell unique cars that are like 30 years old with only a few thousand miles on them and they go for huge huge money.
But, that is the car... Maybe you can find one that needs a little help and put it together yourself in the future rather than buying it all complete and if you can keep it all original, will be worth even more!
Thanks for the great pic!

[Elemino]

Elemino,

Sorry to hear that your Lincoln is not working out for you. Take this into account though. Is it costing you what new car payments are gonna cost? Figure $300 a month for anything more than a Cavalier.

If you get a 1999 Cougar, figure $2500 to $3500 depending on condition. How far would $3500 go on your TC? I bet it would fix everything wrong with it and then some....and then you still have a much better car than a Cougar. Same deal with any Japanese car. Put the money into the TC that any other car would cost you and stick with that awesome Townie!True. But consider that my cars all time best MPG is 22... At the same time a cougar's average MPG is about 28 MPG for the V6 and 34 for a 4 cylinder. Also, My A/C has been problematic to say the least. Even if I fixed the leaks in the lines (or the compressor or where ever they are), my blend door doesn't work. If you're from anywhere up north, I dont even have to finish my statement... I cannot be in a car that runs heat into the interior when the temps here in Dallas have averaged 95º since april. That's 95º before the heat starts to come in... and we're not even in summer yet. Its normal for 100º ~ 110º days here in Dallas during the summer. I have to suffer through it for at least one more year. Last I'd like to add, at least parts are readily available for it.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

My dream car so far is the 60 conti, im trying to get some pictures of exactly what i want, but its hard

[nailfoot]

... the temps here in Dallas have averaged 95º since april. That's 95º before the heat starts to come in... and we're not even in summer yet. Its normal for 100º ~ 110º days here in Dallas during the summer. I have to suffer through it for at least one more year. Last I'd like to add, at least parts are readily available for it.

I am from Virginia. We get 90 to 100 degree days during the summer, but no where near Texas.

My dad just moved to Texas in April. He had done a lot of research in the weeks before he went. You know, restuarants available, driving conditions, and climate. By his calculations, he decided that the average climate in the area he moved to would be close to Roanoke, what he was used to. I talk to him regurlarly, and he now says, "I WAS WRONG! I am baking my arse off down here!"

[v8_dave]

Sell the old boat but dont buy jap. Buddy of mine just bought an 03 elantra for 10K. I could have bought a 99+ navi or something cool for less than that. Fixing things is aight if your proud of your car. Cool factor (pride) is way more important than milage and reliablitly unless you make lots of long trips IMO. Damn man, dont get the bad idea of Amercian cars from 10-20yr old cars.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

We had a 00 navi, and it fell apart, it had less than 70k on it...

[Elemino]

I am from Virginia. We get 90 to 100 degree days during the summer, but no where near Texas.

My dad just moved to Texas in April. He had done a lot of research in the weeks before he went. You know, restuarants available, driving conditions, and climate. By his calculations, he decided that the average climate in the area he moved to would be close to Roanoke, what he was used to. I talk to him regurlarly, and he now says, "I WAS WRONG! I am baking my arse off down here!"It's the Texas Sun thats the killer. You should see what a difference a single floating cloud in the sky makes here! The suns beats you down so hard, when that cloud passed by you would swear the temp dropped almost 20º. When you're in it, you're in it, and the air around you is hot as hell too. So hot you don't want the wind to blow.

Sell the old boat but dont buy jap. Buddy of mine just bought an 03 elantra for 10K. I could have bought a 99+ navi or something cool for less than that. Fixing things is aight if your proud of your car. Cool factor (pride) is way more important than milage and reliablitly unless you make lots of long trips IMO. Damn man, dont get the bad idea of Amercian cars from 10-20yr old cars.I'm not going to buy Jap. I decided earlier today I'm going to buy a 99 or 2000 Mercury Cougar. That doesn't mean I'm against buying Japanese. My first car was a Nissan Stanza, the car the Altima replaced. I didn't get the car until it had 150,000 miles on it. I drove that car hard until 192,000 miles. It finally starting having problems with the transmission so I let it go. Not to mention the seat and carpet was wearing out. Still, I think I'll stay with American and buy a 99-00+ Cougar. If possible I'll keep my "boat." :D

After all it does have a lot of new parts I just put on it ;)

PS... I can't believe my Mavs lost... and I don't care what anyone says the Refs handed the game to the Heat. I guess they forgot about that "let the players decide" moto they're supposed to hold during the playoffs.

[gadget73]

Its old. Think of it this way, you've already fixed most of the stuff thats going to fail. The climate control stuff is cake, I can tell you what that is and how to fix it with a sub-100 part and an hour of your time. The coolant leak can be dealt with. These cars are going to nickle and dime you to the end of time. Its the nature of the beast.

Personally I'd never give up my Towncar for some boring asian car, but thats just me.

[pepsi2185]

Actually all of the coolant issues are not a big deal to work with. and the blender door is just the vacuum actuator in the dash. Japaneeese cars dont have all of the options yours does. All the ones that do, trust me ive seen it broken. All my panther chassis vehicles have gotten me 225-260k miles. Dont assume all japaneese vehicles are reliable. It just happens that people dont trash the japaneese vehicles that last.

[87 town]

Actually all of the coolant issues are not a big deal to work with. and the blender door is just the vacuum actuator in the dash. Japaneeese cars dont have all of the options yours does. All the ones that do, trust me ive seen it broken. All my panther chassis vehicles have gotten me 225-260k miles. Dont assume all japaneese vehicles are reliable. It just happens that people dont trash the japaneese vehicles that last.

Help me here cuz I'm not sure of this. Isn't there a "heater control valve" that is right near the firewall on the pass side of engine which is a plastic tubular valve part that connects to the heater hose that has to do with blender doors opening and closing also? If not, what is the purpose of that part? I had mine replaced years ago and it was quick and easy...I just cant remeber the purpose of it???
I'm going back about 10 years here!!

[Elemino]

I know it controls the blower when the heater is running. (Neat idea btw... may adapt that into future cars :D Need a similar device for the A/C too) I replaced mine recently which is when my A/C cold to hot issuses started happening. I think fixing the switch fixed my heater but broke my A/C.

[pepsi2185]

You talking about that heater core shutoff valve on the heater core coolant lines? I think that may have something to do with low coolant or a warm up feature. Ive never played with it long enough to figure it out. My moms went out on her crown vic once and she had issues with the heat warming up till we replaced it.

[JoshMcMadMac]

There are a few good Cougar forums out there. Check them out for two reasons.

1) You'll learn real quick what to look out for. The sunroof on the 99/00 are notorious for breaking, and they are incredibly expensive to fix. That's just one thing I can remember, but there were a few other things.
2) You'll probably find a good deal on one that's been taken care of. If the previous owner was a member of the forum, they probably took good care of the car. They will also have a hard time selling their car to people that already own one, so the prices come down. On the market they are priced between 5-10 thousand on average, and a lot of times you can find them with "extras" (rims, exhaust, etc.) for under $5K on the forums.

Good luck, man. Sorry that the Lincoln didn't work out for you.

[Tman70]

Is this what you are talking about???

http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00104.html

Ford did have in the 60's an actual vacuum operated valve that shut off the coolant flow to the heater core. Earlier it was cable operated. They used to bind up all the time due to rust after having not been used for 8 months out of the year.

[87 town]

Is this what you are talking about???

http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00104.html

Ford did have in the 60's an actual vacuum operated valve that shut off the coolant flow to the heater core. Earlier it was cable operated. They used to bind up all the time due to rust after having not been used for 8 months out of the year.

yep, that's it. i see this doesn't have anything to do with blender/vent doors opening or shutting though.
thanks

[cason1]

Personally, I wouldn't touch a FWD cougar with a 10 foot stick for a daily driver. My neighbor has an 01 with 60k miles on it and is such a pain in the ass, he is looking for an early 90's Towncar. It is the 4 cylinder with 5 speed and does get fairly good mileage (can't remember exact #'s) but when my EGR system is working correctly, I have seen average highway mileage #'s of low 30's when staying out of it and just cruising and upper 20's during normal driving. All that with a much better ride and an easier to work on car than his Cougar. Another thing to consider is the dealerships don't keep much Cougar stuff on hand. A simple thermostat housing o-ring was only $10 but took 6 days for the dealership to get it in and then 5 minutes for me to put it on. Advance auto type places couldnt' get it for 8 days and one said they couldn't get it at all. Also, get some mechanics opinions on the cars that cougar is based on. The Contour and Mystique. My grandmother has a 96 Mystique that I'm sure we could pull a fast one on someone with as it only has 50k on it IIRC and has been in and out of the dealership for an at idle severe vibration that they haven't been able to fix since '97. :rolleyes: Not very awe inspiring if you ask me. Them being different is why my friend likes/liked his cougar too but after trying to fix a few things on it, he really wants to get rid of it.

[Elemino]

yep, that's it. i see this doesn't have anything to do with blender/vent doors opening or shutting though.
thanksSo what do the vacuum lines running to the switch do?

[Elemino]

A simple thermostat housing o-ring was only $10 but took 6 days for the dealership to get it in and then 5 minutes for me to put it on. Advance auto type places couldnt' get it for 8 days and one said they couldn't get it at all. Also, get some mechanics opinions on the cars that cougar is based on. The Contour and Mystique.That's crazy. I can get parts for my car from dealerships here the same day most of the time. Small things you would think no one would ask for too. They usually just tell me its in the wherehouse and to come back in the afternoon. Also, I read the cougar wasn't based on any other cars... where did you get info about it being based on the contour and the mystique (which are both 4 door cars btw) ?

[87 town]

So what do the vacuum lines running to the switch do?

I'm not sure?

[JoshMcMadMac]

...Also, I read the cougar wasn't based on any other cars... where did you get info about it being based on the contour and the mystique (which are both 4 door cars btw) ?

The Cougar is on the same platform as the Contour and Mystique. Upwards of 50% of the parts interchange, too. The Cougar is basically the two door version of the four door counterparts.

[cason1]

Neighbor bent rear control arm on his cougar and now has 96-98? (can't remember the exact year we pulled it off of) Contour arm back there.;)

[FLM]

Help me here cuz I'm not sure of this. Isn't there a "heater control valve" that is right near the firewall on the pass side of engine which is a plastic tubular valve part that connects to the heater hose that has to do with blender doors opening and closing also? If not, what is the purpose of that part? I had mine replaced years ago and it was quick and easy...I just cant remeber the purpose of it???
I'm going back about 10 years here!!

Gettin way off the original topic, but I can help on that one. The part you are describing is the Thermal Blower Lockout. It doesn't control coolant flow, it's a pipe. It has a temperature sensor that expands above 120 F. When the engine is cold, and the climate control is in Floor mode, the TBL's electrical switch is open, interrupting the power to the blower motor. So the blower won't come on until the coolant temp is greater than 120 F. That prevents blowing cold air on people's feet.
The TBL also has a vacuum switch in it. When coolant is <120 F and in Floor mode, the switch is open, causing vac to pass to the Recirc/Outdoor air door, closing off cold outside air. When coolant is >120 F, it turns off vac to the Recirc door, allowing outside air to mix in. Here again, it's a method of minimizing freezing the people on cold startup.

[FLM]

Back on topic - I don't think any FWD car can take the pounding that a Panther chassis can. The FWD Chevy Impala has a lot of upgrades for police duty, and it's not a match for the ruggedness of the Panther.
As an example, the FWD Impala is a modified GM W body, and a lot of the special heavy duty parts developed for the police version can be bought as replacements parts, and fitted to other GM W bodies. We've done it, among other parts, took off the incredibly cheesey stamped flat thin rear trailing arms, and replaced them with the special heavy tubular steel arms. But stiff stronger front and rear strut tower braces, tubular diagonal radiator braces, massive front and rear sway bars, trailing arms, etc. won't reinforce the basic body stampings themselves.
So if you get a Cougar, keep it on the road

[87 town]

Gettin way off the original topic, but I can help on that one. The part you are describing is the Thermal Blower Lockout. It doesn't control coolant flow, it's a pipe. It has a temperature sensor that expands above 120 F. When the engine is cold, and the climate control is in Floor mode, the TBL's electrical switch is open, interrupting the power to the blower motor. So the blower won't come on until the coolant temp is greater than 120 F. That prevents blowing cold air on people's feet.
The TBL also has a vacuum switch in it. When coolant is <120 F and in Floor mode, the switch is open, causing vac to pass to the Recirc/Outdoor air door, closing off cold outside air. When coolant is >120 F, it turns off vac to the Recirc door, allowing outside air to mix in. Here again, it's a method of minimizing freezing the people on cold startup.

ahh...now I remember. Thanks for that. No one wants ice cold feet in the winter!

[Shrewsbury]

ahh...now I remember. Thanks for that. No one wants ice cold feet in the winter!

Yep - Tman wrote an excellent Tech article on it.
http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00104.html

[pepsi2185]

sweetness. Forgot about that. It never worked in my 88 or 89. good input fellas.

[Elemino]

Well my final decision is I will keep my Town Car as a long distance driver. Small cars make my whole body hurt after a trip. That is, IF I can afford the cougar without selling it. I'll try my best though, because having only a small car makes a miserable driving experience.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

I just tried to go on tour on my college, and i brought my moms 05 camery, because my TC needs to be repaired in all, and i ended up lost for 3 hours. When i got home i could barley walk, after being cramped up for 3 hours...

[87 town]

Well my final decision is I will keep my Town Car as a long distance driver. Small cars make my whole body hurt after a trip. That is, IF I can afford the cougar without selling it. I'll try my best though, because having only a small car makes a miserable driving experience.

Good decision.. Nothin like the cruiser. Hope is works out financially for you!

[brasolt03]

Just be glad that you are not in my boat. I own a 1994 lincoln continental (essex 3.8liter v6 FWD UH-OH) and at this point I have replaced rear air struts at 600 dollers all four tires at 400 dollers as well as air conditioning repair totaling 300 dollers and also the head gasket was replaced before I bought it and I still get the dash beeping at me all the time, (bad solder connections in Cluster)the front trans pump seal is bad requiring removal of transmission (which is yes front wheel drive) with estimated repair at 400 dollers (just labor) and now I am getting collant that is leaking (which is definatly not a good thing on a ford 3.8 liter.

So be glad you didn't buy this car. But the fact is I love the car and it's ride and wouldn't have it any other way so I will keep putting the money into it in hopes that once I am done I get a nice driveable car out of the deal. Just talk to anyone in the continental formums about the 88-94 conti's they will tell you they are addicting.

brasolt03

[87 town]

Just be glad that you are not in my boat. I own a 1994 lincoln continental (essex 3.8liter v6 FWD UH-OH) and at this point I have replaced rear air struts at 600 dollers all four tires at 400 dollers as well as air conditioning repair totaling 300 dollers and also the head gasket was replaced before I bought it and I still get the dash beeping at me all the time, (bad solder connections in Cluster)the front trans pump seal is bad requiring removal of transmission (which is yes front wheel drive) with estimated repair at 400 dollers (just labor) and now I am getting collant that is leaking (which is definatly not a good thing on a ford 3.8 liter.

So be glad you didn't buy this car. But the fact is I love the car and it's ride and wouldn't have it any other way so I will keep putting the money into it in hopes that once I am done I get a nice driveable car out of the deal. Just talk to anyone in the continental formums about the 88-94 conti's they will tell you they are addicting.

brasolt03

And you WILL have a great car in the end, just gotta stick with it. These Town Cars are addicting as well. Can't stop now!!

[gadget73]

I drove my 86 for 12 hours straight when I went from Philly to Bloomington, IN. I drove her about 15-16 hours home when I went from Chicago through Indianapolis back to southern NJ. Believe it or not, I didn't really hurt either. I was slightly stiff but a few minutes of stretching put me back to abnormal.

That thermal blower lockout thing is a piece of junk. I replaced mine after it had been sealed off for a long while. The vacuum "plug" leaked and caused the ATC to go bonkers till I capped that off. Two weeks later it exploded and caused the car to overheat because all the coolant bailed out on me. It would kick the blower on before the car was warm enough to get heat anyway so I just took it out, jumped the power wire across and sealed the vac lines. No problems since.

[Elemino]

Well its final now. DBL's days are limited. The mystery leak mentioned in so many of my posts has gotten so bad, its not even a reliable around town cruiser anymore. My dad said he has some "better" stop leak that I could try. He was saying you have to completely remove all the antifreeze or it will completely stop up the engine plus it has to be put in while the engine is warm. The whole time I was thinking, I'm not trying another stop leak, this problem isn't going away.

Now that I can't even use the car to get to my classes everyday, I've finally decided the car has to go. Sometime next month, my car goes up for sale and I'll start looking for an 98~99 Explorer as my replacement. Right now I'm doing researching trying to find out if its 5.0 is the same 302 that's in our cars or if its a modular engine (which is what I want). We'll see, but just to let everyone know, its stuck in my driveway now. I can't afford $8 of antifreeze everyday to drive the car. I would like to say it has been good being part of something such as this website. I consider this my free Lincoln Car Club. :D If anyone would like to make any such offers, let me know. I'm taking the entire stereo system out and replacing it with a CD player and cheaper components. I'm leaving the AvantGuard5 Alarm w/Remote Start on it too. I hope the next owner doesn't just junk her and decides to carry on the legacy. Only 124,000 miles old, a fix to that leak and she has many more miles to go.

[joedogg]

Dude, if you're just selling it put plain water in the radiator. The cooling system can take much of this abuse before it fucks up too bad. I hope your car goes to a good home man!

[LuxuryLiner]

Before you actually make your buy...check out what it would cost to get the leak fixed professionally compared to the down payment and cost of new car payment...just a thought!!!

[lairdt]

Too bad you're going that way, even if it were a bad water pump, it is fixable.

This should point out to others that stop leak will not fix a real leak, especially a rotten hose. Only after I had replaced *all* of the hoses did my radiator finally maintain it's water level. Cost me $40 and a couple hours time to get it all done.

[gadget73]

Explorer 5.0 is roughly the same motor thats in the Townie with better intake, heads, and the worst exhaust system on the planet.

Just get it fixed. Much cheaper than car payments.

[lairdt]

... Explorer 5.0 is also a batch fire EFI setup, though full SEFI upgrade exists from Ford.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

Yall gotta remeber, 18 years old, thats not to bad i think. Expecially here in minnesota

[gadget73]

Only truly useful thing about the Explorer 5.0 is that you can fairly easy remove it from the vehicle its in, sell the engine mount brackets to the Ranger 5.0 swap crowd, and slap the motor in a real car. Change the valve springs (stock ones are poo) and use an HO cam and you've got yourself a monster runner. It will even behave itself decently with a stock Mark VII speed density ECM.

[Elemino]

Explorer 5.0 is roughly the same motor thats in the Townie with better intake, heads, and the worst exhaust system on the planet.

Just get it fixed. Much cheaper than car payments.I hate to hear that... I really want a modular engine. I have no problem upgrading the exhaust though. BTW I never said anything about car payments. :D I plan on paying cash for whatever I get. Just like when I bought my TC.

You guys have to take into account I need a steady, reliable daily driver. I think the TC has just gotten too old to be a reliable daily. I can't drive it without something breaking all the time now. Since R-12 is almost impossible to get now, not to mention R134 doesn't work well in these old system, a working A/C made for 134 will be a welcome change. I need an A/C, and the cost of fixing my A/C is out of the question.

I know that you lose some luxuries going from a Lincoln to a Ford SUV, but I'll live. Plus I can use having a bigger vehicle to move things and for more vacation options. I've never personally owned a truck, but I have wanted one for a long time. I used to say I'd have my 89TC sitting next to my Navi one day.... doesn't look like that will happen. The navi uses WAY too much gas for today's prices, and the TC isn't going to make it.

BTW, its not the water pump, its been replaced. I've replaced all the hoses now, some of them twice. I've already run stop leak through the system a couple of months ago with no change in the leak. Water is what I was running in my system when that hose broke on my last weekend. It offers no protection to your system though.

[gadget73]

There is no such thing as "too old to be reliable". Just takes the proper maintainence and repairs, which can get pretty extensive for sure. I'm just one of those crazy people that can't ever get rid of something if there is any chance of fixing it. I mean I'm fully aware most people would not have the disgusting amounts of money invested in a 20 year old car, especially one that looks as horrible as mine that I have.

The manifolds are the problem with the Explorer motor. The extra annoying thing is that little is to be done about it. Aftermarket headers from FRPP exist, but I don't know how much better they are. The design looks solidly horrible for flow though.
Stock Exploder 302 manifolds.
http://www.1aautomotive.com/pics/plp/PLP1390306.jpg
http://www.1aautomotive.com/pics/plp/PLP1390308.jpg

[Rollin6Dr]

Bought the 88 with 140K, it's at 191K and all it's been is maintence items except for this last 100 miles of hell. Even then I'm confident once I fix these minor issues that it will be alright. Plus nothing says pimpin like this.

http://i7.tinypic.com/211jq60.jpg

Yeah thats the old girl in her glory.

[87 town]

There is no such thing as "too old to be reliable". Just takes the proper maintainence and repairs, which can get pretty extensive for sure. I'm just one of those crazy people that can't ever get rid of something if there is any chance of fixing it. I mean I'm fully aware most people would not have the disgusting amounts of money invested in a 20 year old car, especially one that looks as horrible as mine that I have.

The manifolds are the problem with the Explorer motor. The extra annoying thing is that little is to be done about it. Aftermarket headers from FRPP exist, but I don't know how much better they are. The design looks solidly horrible for flow though.
Stock Exploder 302 manifolds.
http://www.1aautomotive.com/pics/plp/PLP1390306.jpg
http://www.1aautomotive.com/pics/plp/PLP1390308.jpg

I guess I'm one of those crazy people too. Holding on to things. I have also put "lots" of money into my car, as most of us have, if we still have em runnin.
I agree with Elemino though, that it is not a car to count on every day. There are sooo many possible things that can go wrong. Even if it's just a bad wire connection somewhere, totally unexpected, from age/corrosion that will stall you right out and then you need a tow truck. On most main roads out here by me. If you stall and can't restart your car within about 10 minutes, the police will have it towed for you. I've been there, more than once...
My thinking remains that I will keep the TC , but just not rely on her every day. I'm not wealthy by no means, but fortunately, I can still keep her in the garage and work on her and drive at will, more for leisure, but not counting on her. I do partially agree with you Gadget, that there is no such thing as too old to keep runnin....BUT, unless you have done literally "everything" to these cars, they are unpredicatable. As much regular maintenance as I give her, there are still so many unknowns. On the other hand, if we are talkin about maybe a 66 Chevy 2 or simple Nova with crank windows, no AC, no power doors, but just the simple basics of an engine and trans and brakes, etc., without the complications of the TC, I would fully agree with you there.
I am sure that the values will increase in time as more and more people get frustrated and dump em to the junkyards. Sooo, lets keep em if we can!:D

[Elemino]

Those manifolds look horrible... but better than what the TC has. If I get an explorer I'll probably upgrade the entire exhaust anyway.

My issue I'm running into now is the fear of investing money and the possibility of a wreck or some other event causing me to lose everything I've invested. I've already invested about $800 in my car this year alone. If I keep investing and I get hit, all these new parts and labor will be worth much more than the insurance company is willing to give me... not to mention i already have a salvage title.

Did I mention the fact I normally cant afford to replace my vehicle at any given time? Financial aid is going to pay for it if I get it. Normally however, if I get hit and they don't give me enough money to replace my car... I'm SOL.

[87 town]

Those manifolds look horrible... but better than what the TC has. If I get an explorer I'll probably upgrade the entire exhaust anyway.

My issue I'm running into now is the fear of investing money and the possibility of a wreck or some other event causing me to lose everything I've invested. I've already invested about $800 in my car this year alone. If I keep investing and I get hit, all these new parts and labor will be worth much more than the insurance company is willing to give me... not to mention i already have a salvage title.

Did I mention the fact I normally cant afford to replace my vehicle at any given time? Financial aid is going to pay for it if I get it. Normally however, if I get hit and they don't give me enough money to replace my car... I'm SOL.

I understand and learned that insurance lesson on my 63 Riveria back in the 70's. Got hit in the fender by a truck, (his fault), all smashed up. Insurance company gave me a choice. 1) Give me $800. and they keep the car as totaled cuz the damage was more than $800. 2) Give me nothing and I can keep the car. I kept the car, but was pissed off...(this was "after" I had totally rebuilt the engine, new exhaust, new front end, etc... etc....)
To stay protected you have to buy "special" insurance and pay high permiums..
we all do what we can and what we have to....Good luck in whatever you decide here.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

Well, sadly, it looks like the first 14-16 years of these cars, they ran like champs, then after that 16 year mark, they are falling apart

[Elemino]

Yea. When it gets to the point where parts start breaking inside the car from normal shaking and vibrations, its time to get a new strategy... or vehicle.

[fshavlak]

Yea, I was about to say my dream car is a 65-67 Continental... Suicide doors and all! :D Somebody was selling one on ebay not too long ago and I decided to borrow a few pics to get ideas for the day that I can get my own. Enjoy!

http://myspace-335.vo.llnwd.net/00849/53/38/849758335_l.jpg
http://myspace-023.vo.llnwd.net/00849/32/09/849759023_l.jpg
http://myspace-140.vo.llnwd.net/00849/04/10/849760140_l.jpg

I'm right there with you with the '65-'67 conti as my dream car, but that one looks terrible - maybe it is salvagable.

I'd have to have stock or at least tasteful wheels, and it'd have to be shiny black.

God, I love the suicide doors.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

Looks like a amature restore, i could do so much better, man i love those conti's

[Elemino]

It wasn't a restore... but I do like how they didn't try to stick a radio in the dash. It's in the glove box. I'd drive it just like that.. looks nice to me. :D

I wouldn't want a perfect restore anyway.. cuz then I couldn't drive it.

[bill0044]

Years ago someone told me with TC's, they run good for a while, then you put a bunch of money in em, and then they run good for a while, etc etc etc.....
I started with an 88, got a brown 89 that had leather and different shift points, then got an 89 Sig, which now has about 216 k.

I do put money in it once in a while... I need to learn to do some of my own work.... But there are lots of 25 year old cars out there that someone kept up with...an article a couple years back in Automobile said the Livery trade in NYC loves these.. they are so easy to fix, and the motors are bulletproof..... But that article was written about 4 years ago, too, so, who knows what more time brings....
I am too old to start with another car, but I expect to get the big blue car to be 25 years old, with me driving it, in 8 more years...

I reallly enjoyed reading this thread.... lots of great info... I got a lot out of it.. Thanks to all....

Bill

[Sixlitre]

There is no such thing as "too old to be reliable". Just takes the proper maintainence and repairs, which can get pretty extensive for sure. I'm just one of those crazy people that can't ever get rid of something if there is any chance of fixing it. I mean I'm fully aware most people would not have the disgusting amounts of money invested in a 20 year old car, especially one that looks as horrible as mine that I have.

The manifolds are the problem with the Explorer motor. The extra annoying thing is that little is to be done about it. Aftermarket headers from FRPP exist, but I don't know how much better they are. The design looks solidly horrible for flow though.
Stock Exploder 302 manifolds.
http://www.1aautomotive.com/pics/plp/PLP1390306.jpg
http://www.1aautomotive.com/pics/plp/PLP1390308.jpg


They don't look any worse than these 1990 stockers;

http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/227725/fullsize/img_0098.jpg (http://www.supermotors.net/vehicles/registry/media/227725_1)

A kindergarten class could have done a better design job with their crayolas !

Sixlitre

[OVERKILL]

... Explorer 5.0 is also a batch fire EFI setup, though full SEFI upgrade exists from Ford.

The Explorer motor is SEFI and also has coil-on-plug, unlike our older 302's.

The heads are either GT40's (Cobra/Lightning leftovers) from 96 to early 97 or GT40P's (revised sparkplug location, revised exhaust runner design, valve size, location).

The intake is the same as the Cobra/GT40 in terms of runner length and style. The lower is common with the three. This intake a MAJOR upgrade in comparison to the stock intake on our cars, as are the heads.

The camshaft is similar in specs to the Mustang camshaft, but with slightly less duration. It makes more low-end torque but less HP.

The exhaust system (as has already been discussed) is a MAJOR cork. I do not know if longtubes exist, but I'm sure they probably do, as I've seen an Explorer run 11's with a 408 in it, on Nitrous.

The throttle body is 65mm, which is 5mm larger than the stock Mustang one.

Basically, the Explorer motor is a different-cammed '93 Cobra engine. It has the potential to make easily 245HP flywheel (what the Cobra made) but the exhaust prevents that. Let it breath, and it will thank you.

The Explorer motor is a common Fox Body swap, as simply changing the front dressing, dropping in a TFI distributor and giving it a cam swap, and you have some very good performance for very little money. BUT, changing the valve springs is a MUST, as stock, they are quite weak.

Why would you want a mod motor in the Explorer? The 302 is a wonderful little mill as long as you know its limitations. No more than 500RWHP with a forged internal piece, keep the RPM's at MAX 6,000 and don't rattle the hell out of it, and it will live a long and healthy life.

The problem with your car is probably minor. Even if it is something more major like headgaskets (does it puff white smoke? Is there coolant in the oil, oil in the coolant?) they are a whopping 40 bucks and maybe 8 hours of work to change if you've never done it before.

You are dealing with an almost 20 year old car that has had to drag around, at a bare minimum 4200+lbs on a daily basis. Expect it to leak here and there, expect it to have some weird little problems (like your coolant issue, I have a similar one, though no where near as bad, but I know its my rad) and approach them with an open mind.

They are simple cars. There is not a massive amount of stuff to deal with, like their is on newer cars. Yet all the features/creature comforts are there, some that even most new cars don't have. You have to take that into account.

Take a rational approach to the situation, as others have already suggested. It IS going to cost you more money to purchase a new car than it is to fix yours. Don't assume that just because its newer, doesn't mean that it won't be plagued with its own little array of issues to deal with.

All cars have their quirks, issues and problems. Its understanding them, and fixing them (and not getting hosed by somebody else fixing them) that is key.

My Town Car is a similar situation to yours.

My father purchased it one year old. Over the last 5 years, it has been plaguing him with little issues that in his eyes, made the vehicle unreliable. It had strange coolant leaks that would appear, a coolant patch that would appear on the garage floor yet his mechanic could never find the source of. Then, one day, driving down the highway to work, the block heater popped out.......the freeze plug/heater combo had rotted out. That was his leak. THEN, he had a rad hose blow like two months later. He instructed them to change all the hoses. They missed one. The TFI module went out on it, left him stranded. a brake line broke, had to limp it home. A fuel line began leaking...., the car started consuming oil.....etc. It was becoming a nightmare for him.

I got the car as a gift from him because he figured I could fix it.

Replaced that one remaining rad hose (thermostat loop-back) which developed a pin-hole leak 5 days after I got the car.

Replaced the PCV valve and screen, which was plugged solid. Car felt like it gained 50HP. Replaced the leaking valve cover gaskets. Oil issue ceased.

Put on a Bluestreak TFI module to replace the white "strange TFI from China" pile that his mechanic put on. Car ran stronger.

Cleaned the "Salt and Pepper Shakers" which fixed the random no fuel issue it had (no injector pulse).

Installed a 155lph Walboro pump from my Mustang in it when the stock Bosch unit went for a crap.

Replaced the gas tank at the same time.

Replaced the drivers-side fuel line (fixed gas smell).

Replaced the TPS, fixed the off-idle stumble.

Replaced the coil with the MSD Blaster TFI coil I had on the Mustang which fixed my strange random wet-condition stall.

Replaced the stock front springs/shocks today with Police Interceptor ones, fixed the sagging front end and massive body roll the car had.

Installed a Lincoln Mark VIII electric fan to replace the stock clutch unit.

Re-charged the A/C yesterday with an R134 conversion kit, works beautifully now.


My ONLY issue I have now is disappearing coolant. Not a massive amount, maybe 2 litres every few days. I know its my rad. That is next on my list. Its an 18 year old car, I expect these little things to fail.

I guess its all relative, but I know, the car was stone-reliable for 15 years. With all these little things replaced, and proper maintenance, another 15 is easily obtainable. The body is solid, the engine runs like a top and the interior is only showing slight signs of age. These are beautiful cars, and if you go into it knowing that its going to need a fair bit of work to get it back to "like new" then you won't be disappointed.

I love my TC, my Mustang is my toy.

[87 town]

Years ago someone told me with TC's, they run good for a while, then you put a bunch of money in em, and then they run good for a while, etc etc etc.....
I started with an 88, got a brown 89 that had leather and different shift points, then got an 89 Sig, which now has about 216 k.

I do put money in it once in a while... I need to learn to do some of my own work.... But there are lots of 25 year old cars out there that someone kept up with...an article a couple years back in Automobile said the Livery trade in NYC loves these.. they are so easy to fix, and the motors are bulletproof..... But that article was written about 4 years ago, too, so, who knows what more time brings....
I am too old to start with another car, but I expect to get the big blue car to be 25 years old, with me driving it, in 8 more years...

I reallly enjoyed reading this thread.... lots of great info... I got a lot out of it.. Thanks to all....

Bill

I did read in "Readers Digest" a few years ago that TC's were within the top 2 "used cars ever" per thieir survey. I think Lexus was first on the list in this luxury class. I don't recall what years they started with, but they went through the mid 90's.