Caddy lobs a competitor to the MKZ

[GorgeZeph]

I was reading my local newspaper and saw a review of the 2006 Cadillac STS V-6 AWD. Looks like Caddy saw the specs for the MKZ and built a car to compete.

The engine is a V-6 (3.6L vs. 3.5) that puts out 255HP (vs. 250). It has AWD, like the MKZ. It has some interesting toys like push button start, adaptive cruise control, and heads up display. I'd like to see the MKZ offer those.

Now the catch.... GM prices this MKZ clone from $42,920.. Let's see, that's 10K over the MKZ....

[pepsi2185]

STS is the big boy. I wonder if they have something similar in a CTS?

[Dana_15]

I cant stand AWD. I'm glad the Zephyr came without it. Caddy makes a decent vehicle, but 10K is a big difference.

[Led Zephyrlin]

I prefer AWD to be an option not standard because in my area of the world AWD is nothing more than a waste of money.

I actually looked at the CTS before deciding on the Zephyr. But the problem I had with the CTS was that the one that I wanted which would be comparably equipped to my Zeph was much more expensive (before huge rebates). After I took into account the out the door amount I could get on the two different vehicles I was saving about $5k by choosing the Zephyr and the Zephyr had nicer styling and a better quality interior.

[pro-five-oh]

The STS is significantly larger (and more expensive) than the MKZ. Its more like an alternative to a Town Car than a MKZ. It'll also drive differently since its a RWD-biased chassis.

A more fair comparo would be the AWD Chrysler 300, and AWD Infiniti G35. Audi A4s too. From that angle, yeah, Ford's got AWD as an advantage over GM.

[Conti94]

The STS is significantly larger (and more expensive) than the MKZ. Its more like an alternative to a Town Car than a MKZ. It'll also drive differently since its a RWD-biased chassis.

A more fair comparo would be the AWD Chrysler 300, and AWD Infiniti G35. Audi A4s too. From that angle, yeah, Ford's got AWD as an advantage over GM.

Have to disagree with the TC alternative. The STS is more of a Mercedes E class alternative. It's in between the TC and the Zephyr. DTS to TC, CTS to Zephyr/MKZ.;)

[pro-five-oh]

Have to disagree with the TC alternative. The STS is more of a Mercedes E class alternative. It's in between the TC and the Zephyr. DTS to TC, CTS to Zephyr/MKZ.;)
Pricewise, the STS is more in the TCs range. But your point is spot on. Not to mention the super complicated underpinnings of the STS make it more of an E-class competitors. (or an LS, if that still existed)

One of the beauties of the Zephyr (like the Mark VII) is that its on a pretty simple and mass produced chassis. Hence its price point. The STS...not so much.

[AZLincolnMercury]

One things for sure…the Caddy interiors are just short of horrendous. I not only don’t care for the look but the quality is very poor. I’d expect more from a Focus.
are they serious?:eek:
http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/a/07/87/f9/0a_4.JPG

[pro-five-oh]

One things for sure…the Caddy interiors are just short of horrendous. I not only don’t care for the look but the quality is very poor. I’d expect more from a Focus.
are they serious?:eek:
http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/4131/cts9xj.jpg

The only snafu is that this is the upcoming CTS interior. It looks stunning (note the stitched dashboard vinyl) odds are the real thing will not disappoint. I say that because GM is only getting better in the past 2-3 years in their new products. Cadillac isn't gonna suck anymore. (probably)

So the CTS has a strong V6, manual tranny, RWD, maybe optional AWD...ithas the making to beat the snot out of every Domestic and Import in the $30-40 grand range. Not to mention the V series for people with $50k burning a hole in their pocket.

Thoughts?

[AZLincolnMercury]

Not my style…but the quality looks a hell of a lot better.

Those black plastic buttons kill it for me.

Hey look ma…they figured out how to make air vents

just one question....that thing got onstar?:D

[Sysanalyst]

One things for sure…the Caddy interiors are just short of horrendous. I not only don’t care for the look but the quality is very poor. I’d expect more from a Focus.
are they serious?:eek:
http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/a/07/87/f9/0a_4.JPG

Good God the plastic monster is still alive and well over at GM! Why did they bother with the fake wood inserts, they don't do a thing to disguise all of that cheap plastic I see everywhere. What gives with those goofy looking gauges? What the heck is that oddly placed plastic flower looking thing on the right spoke of the steering wheel? Finally, the center console looks like a robot head from a 1950's "C" movie. Now my first nice word about the Zephyr... drum roll please.... the Zephyr dash board makes this dash look like a pair of sneakers at a formal wedding.

[AZLincolnMercury]

Good God the plastic monster is still alive and well over at GM!
Sadly enough, I think that’s still an improvement for GM. Let’s compare a 2004 Deville against my 1998, again 1998 Town Car. That’s a 6 year difference! :eek:
All the people that don’t like the 98+ TC…take a look at your other choice ;)
http://www.exquisiteautos.net/pictures/2003%20Deville/34.jpg
http://www.exquisiteautos.net/pictures/2003%20Deville/36.jpg
http://www.exquisiteautos.net/pictures/2003%20Deville/39.jpg
http://members.cox.net/jmgallagher/new22.jpg
http://members.cox.net/jmgallagher/Copy%20of%20new1.jpg
Pic from eBay showing the wood which looks black in my night shoots ;)
http://members.cox.net/jmgallagher/965250_23.jpg

[pro-five-oh]

Stop whoring the Zephyr forum with Townie pics. :)

[AZLincolnMercury]

sorry:D this should level things out:
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/EI/2006/Lincoln/2006.lincoln.zephyr.20081189-E.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/EI/2006/Lincoln/2006.lincoln.zephyr.20081191-E.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/EI/2006/Lincoln/2006.lincoln.zephyr.20081190-E.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2006/Lincoln/100640484/20028242-E.jpg
which color combo you guys like better? I kind of like the black better;)
but both look excellent

[Wolfe_83Conti]

Probably a little late in the game. The STS so far has been comp'ed to the MKZ and TC. The STS is a grey zone car that compares not only to the said Lincolns, but to several targeted imported cars and the gawd-awful Chrysler 300; the M-B CLS, E- and S-classes; BMW 5- and 7-series; Audi A-6 and -8; Jaguar S-Type and XJ series; Infiniti M- and Q- series; Lexus GS, LS sedans; and Acura RL sedan. The interior and powertrain options on this car span a wide range of competition, making it one of the first Caddy's I've seen that does so. Also, there is the STS V-Type that slots with the highest performing models of the cars I listed. Prices range from a 'basic' V6 AWD model for approx $42k to the range-topping V-Type at $77k.

And if anyone would care to check on the revised DTS, it's a lot more visually pleasing (and proportionally better styled) than the outgoing model. The interior hasn't been cursed with the CTS's odd angles, and overall the car doesn't look fat anymore. If I had the money, I'd consider it again. If Lincoln builds a nicely styled, full-size sedan again (read: like the pre-'98 TC), I'd consider that, too.

[Led Zephyrlin]

That new CTS interior looks much nicer than the current year. If now that only makes it through to final production and does not still have alot of cheap to the touch plastic.

Anyway, I still prefer my Zephyr no matter what :p

[Philip]

One things for sure…the Caddy interiors are just short of horrendous. I not only don’t care for the look but the quality is very poor. I’d expect more from a Focus.
are they serious?:eek:
http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/a/07/87/f9/0a_4.JPG
the only thing I find likeable about their interior is the steering wheel, and only because the three-spoke design is a throwback to Seventies Eldorados...lol. Recent GM interiors have been pretty bad overall. Ford really got it going on in the mid-eighties with (the then-new concept of) ergonomic design and they've stayed on top:)

[Jon90LSC]

I think it has been noted here (and I am probably late, as usual) but you can get the 3.6L in a CTS, with a 6 speed and rear wheel drive. Most of the CTS's you see (ours included) have the 2.8L engine, as that is the entry level car. I imagine next year either the LS400 or CTS (or both...) will be replaced by a CTS-V in our household. That is just a bad ass car, goofy dash notwithstanding.

[GorgeZeph]

I imagine next year either the LS400 or CTS (or both...) will be replaced by a CTS-V in our household. That is just a bad ass car, goofy dash notwithstanding.

There was a survey on the Lincoln web site asking Zephyr shoppers what engine they want in the future..... The choices included the V-8 from the X-90 and a new 3.5 V-6 Twin turbo with up to 380HP....

What would that say to a CTS-V (see ya!)

[pro-five-oh]

There was a survey on the Lincoln web site asking Zephyr shoppers what engine they want in the future..... The choices included the V-8 from the X-90 and a new 3.5 V-6 Twin turbo with up to 380HP....

What would that say to a CTS-V (see ya!)
Considering the CTS is about to get the 400hp six-liter (or does it already?) and a proposed Z06 engine next year (505hp) there's really no comparing the two. Not to mention the 4.4L V8 Lincoln will use doesn't have the hot-rodding support of the small-block chevy.

Of course, performance isn't everything to most people.

[Led Zephyrlin]

You are correct when saying there is no comparison between the CTS-V and the Zephyr even if the Zephyr got the hypothetical twin turbo. The price difference alone between the two would be a huge gap in base MSRP since the 2006 CTS-V starts at $51,395. The Zephyr if equipped with the twin turbo has a projected MSRP of around $35k base MSRP. So at just over $16k more I would hope the CTS-V would romp on the proposed MKZ Twin Turbo or V-8.

The more apt comparison would be to compare the CTS-V to the BMW M3 which I believe would have no problem giving the CTS-V a tough fight.

[Jon90LSC]

The upside to the wonderful American luxury car devaluation is that it applies to the CTS-V already. I have seen an '05 with 30K miles (which makes it a Cadillac Certified car with a 6 year/100K warranty) for $31K. That is a steal for a 400hp, six speed manual, rear drive vehicle, espacially one that could (hypothetically) accommodate a baby seat. With the way those cars run, I am soooooo in. While it's nice Lincoln is putting up a survey like that, what is the likelyhood that they will listen to it?

[Led Zephyrlin]

Well, you have a point. Surveys are great for speculation but the end results is many times ignored.

That CTS-V for $20 off MSRP would be a steal. Makes me think, hmmm, why such a hard hit on the car if it is such a great vehicle? Blue book is about $3k more in trade-in value alone if the vehicle is in excellent shape. Look that car over close if you decide to buy, price seems a bit on the low side.

[Jon90LSC]

I figure since the Certified warranty extends the original 4/50,000 warranty to 6/100,000, it shouldn't ba a big deal. My soon to be brother in law has a black '05, and he was saying he would like to get $37K for it. There have been a few around here for that, but I did see the one for $31K.

[pro-five-oh]

That CTS-V for $20 off MSRP would be a steal. Makes me think, hmmm, why such a hard hit on the car if it is such a great vehicle? Blue book is about $3k more in trade-in value alone if the vehicle is in excellent shape. Look that car over close if you decide to buy, price seems a bit on the low side.

The price is right, because Caddys still depreciate like crazy because of their lousy interior, mediocre long-term customer satisfaction (compared to Lexus) and lack of mainstream-ness like a Lexus or snobbery like a BMW.

Lincolns also depreciate like mad (historically) but hopefully the Zephyr can turn that around.

The CTS is a nice chassis dying for an interior that feels like it could stand the test of time. Ditto the exterior, that grille looks like tupperware!!! The CTS-V makes things a lot better with extra power, especially for folks like Jon. :)


Jon, babyseat? :eek:

[LuxuryLiner]

Probably a little late in the game. The STS so far has been comp'ed to the MKZ and TC. The STS is a grey zone car that compares not only to the said Lincolns, but to several targeted imported cars and the gawd-awful Chrysler 300; the M-B CLS, E- and S-classes; BMW 5- and 7-series; Audi A-6 and -8; Jaguar S-Type and XJ series; Infiniti M- and Q- series; Lexus GS, LS sedans; and Acura RL sedan. The interior and powertrain options on this car span a wide range of competition, making it one of the first Caddy's I've seen that does so. Also, there is the STS V-Type that slots with the highest performing models of the cars I listed. Prices range from a 'basic' V6 AWD model for approx $42k to the range-topping V-Type at $77k.

And if anyone would care to check on the revised DTS, it's a lot more visually pleasing (and proportionally better styled) than the outgoing model. The interior hasn't been cursed with the CTS's odd angles, and overall the car doesn't look fat anymore. If I had the money, I'd consider it again. If Lincoln builds a nicely styled, full-size sedan again (read: like the pre-'98 TC), I'd consider that, too.


Except that the new DTS looks like an older model New Yorker from Chrysler...I had a 96 DeVille, that was a Cadillac!