93 Continental PCM?

[hotrodharley]

can the air ride modular mounted under the radiator fan cover by the battary cause a no start problum?my car wouldn't sart in parking lot.i replaced the fuel pump assy-ign modular and ign coil.still won't start.the air modular is bussing now any time i have key on.can't afford to keep buying unneeded parts and so far that's what i've been doing..NEED HELP

[ekooke]

What happens if you turn the ride control module OFF? The switch is in trunk, behind the liner on the driver side rear fender - on most air ride vehicles.

[hotrodharley]

i turned off air ride switch in trunk and still busses and still a no start

[MichiganTeddyBear]

either I am really asleep today, or just forgetfull, but I dont even recall an 'air ride modular' mounted under the fan cover.... the only air ride parts under the hood are the compressor and the compressor relay...

the control module is in the trunk, left side, near the shutoff switch (which is near the fuel pump inertia switch).

I admit I do no know the exact location of the compressor relay.. it could be that in which your talking about. I will attempt to venture out to the parts car and my car tonite and take a peek at what it could be your referring to.

[Steve Moran]

can the air ride modular mounted under the radiator fan cover by the battary cause a no start problum?my car wouldn't sart in parking lot.i replaced the fuel pump assy-ign modular and ign coil.still won't start.the air modular is bussing now any time i have key on.can't afford to keep buying unneeded parts and so far that's what i've been doing..NEED HELP

the suspension control module is located in the trunk, it is mounted on the brace/devider right behind the seat back.
The control box that is under the fan shroud cover is the multi function relay that controls the Radiator Coolong Fan, Fuel Pump and, The Engine Control Module (aka the computer)

Yes it can cause a no start problem, when the radiator cooling fan is drawing excessive juice the solinoids in the box will not function correctly.
Unplug the cooling fan and try to start the car, if this works you will need to change the fan motor.
these motors draw an ungodly large amount of juice from the battery.

[Steve Moran]

when the buzzing happens your coil is firing and your distributer is sparking, remove the cap and look where the rotor sits in the cap and you will see a burn mark.
I fought this for two months, it drove me crazy.

[hotrodharley]

steve;;;;;;i unplug fan but still no start BUT that control box is bussing noise when key is on.will the little pocket scanners they sell at parts stores tell me a no start code and what it would be?OR SINCE THAT CONTROL BOX IS BUSSING ALL TIME THEN IS THAT TELLING ME THE BOX IS BAD.WITH KEY IN ON POSITION YOU CAN HEAR THE BUSSING SOUND ALL THE WAY TO BACK OF CAR AND CAN EVEN FEEL IT.IT NEVER BUSSED WHEN CAR WAS DOING OK.

[hotrodharley]

i pulled cap and rotor.both looked ok.crank engine over and had good spark at plugs.i pulled plasic hard line off at air intake hose[line goes to valve cover]had brother crank eng as i sprayed starting fluid into air intake the engine will try to run on starting fluid.

[Steve Moran]

It is possable it is bad.
With the distributor cap on pull the coil wire from the cap and place it close to a metal spot on the block away from the fuel lines then turn the key to the run position(don't crank the engine). See if you get a spark when the box buzzes.
if it dose spark then the coil is good, if it dose not spark then it is the coil causing the short.
if this is not the problem move along to the ECM and unplug it, try the switch again.
you will get a buzz or no buzz if no buzz then it could be the ECM.

I am still leaning tward the fan. pull the plastic tubing cover back off the wires down by the fan and see if they are bubbled, all 4 of my cars had this problem, if it is bubbled then the wires melted together in the plastic tubing.
if this is the problem and I would bet it is then you will need to strip off about a foot of the wire, it only goes to the control box that buzzes. the wires go from two fat balck with a white stripe wire to two thin wires and IIRC black with orange stripe and green the same thing, big diameter wire to two smaller wires.
inside the box is a number of relays that these wires go to.
the fan is a two speed fan so that is why you have 3 wires going to it.
try this and then post what you find and we can go from there.

[DEVANS]

My 93 Cont. 3.8 v6 will not start. The PCM box has a constant clicking when the ignition switch is turned to on position. I changed the PCM box and it still will not start. The new box has the same constant clicking. Could there be something else that causes the PCM to click and not operate.
Thank you for any comment.

[Steve Moran]

These two threads are about the same thing so I put them together.
;)

[hotrodharley]

i did all checks that steve said to do..box[multi function relay box]still has a non-stop buzzing coming from it.still a no start.i ordered a new box yesterday.be in today about 10am so i'll try it.let everyone know if it fixes it or not.

[Steve Moran]

Atleast we did all the free stuff first.

[hotrodharley]

put the new box[mutli function relay box]still buzzing with key on.i reread steves thread about unplugging the ecm.did that and turn key on..no buzzing now.Steve does this mean i have a bad ECM and need to replace it?

[DEVANS]

Update on earlier post about PCM buzzing on 93 Cont 3.8 v6:
After replacing PCM and still no start. I pulled coil wire at cap and turned on key and had good strong spark while the PCM was still buzzing. Also unpluged radiator fan and it still buzzed with no start.
I removed air intake hose and sprayed with starting fluid and engine runs a second or two while still buzzing. Two questions.
1-Would it run at all if the PCM was bad?
2-Is the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) located under the fan shroud the same as the ECM?

Thanks for any reply.

[Steve Moran]

No it is not. The ECM is behind the glove box, it goes thrue the firewall to the big connector on the passenger side.
Did you peal the black plastic tubing on the wires and look at the insulation in the individual wires coming from the connector by the fan to the PCM bolted to the radiator support?
By your response, it looks as if you have not done this yet.
You need to look at the wire insulation so we can figure this out.
This is the free stuff you can do, before you put another dime in your car.

[Steve Moran]

If it was not dark out I would take pictures of my cars so you could look at what was wrong with them.
The black insulation was bubbled and melted from some of the wire that came from the fan connector back about a foot to a foot and a half.
Once I found it and pulled it apart I started the car it ran well, one was so bad the cooling fan connector was melted together.

[Steve Moran]

put the new box[mutli function relay box]still buzzing with key on.i reread steves thread about unplugging the ecm.did that and turn key on..no buzzing now.Steve does this mean i have a bad ECM and need to replace it?

Nope it dose not, I know you could have a different problem but I still think it is melted wires, My last car the '93 did exactly the same thing as yours to a T I fought this thing for months and months. I was so fed up I wanted to burn that SOB to the ground.
I then started to pull fuses from the fuse box until the buzzing stopped and the buzzing quit when i got to the fan motor.
I looked at the wiring and then I saw the connection and the plastic condition.
I looked at my two other Contis I had at the time, one was repaired (sort of) by someone cutting the connector out and splicing the wires.
the other was fixed like I needed to do, so I copied the way it was done. I then went to my fourth car, my parts car and looked and the harness was in the same shape or worse.

[DEVANS]

Thank you Steve, you were right.
Checked wires in tube going down by fan. They had melted together, I pulled them apart and box quit buzzing and car started.

I could not have found this without your help or alot of money.
Thanks again!

[Steve Moran]

Not a problem at all, I am glad I could help.
The motor draws amjor amps as it works.
I would look into getting a different motor, I think yours is on the way out.
Enjoy your car man I know I do mine.

[hotrodharley]

steve;;i unpluged my fan motor at harness.still no start;;i undid coil as you said;box still buzzed-unpluged the ECM and buzzing stoped..replaced the ECM and car started for about 12 times that day.got in car that same afternoon and guess what;;the box[pcm]was buzzing again and no start again..HELP;;;i've called part store to get another ECM but are there anything that could have burned up new ECM.always thought if theres a short or something that would cause ECM to go bad it would take it out as soon as you turn key on..also on this fan wire deal.is it bad at fan side of wire plug or at the wire harness side of plug[where it goes into harness at]my all looks good but havn't untaped it.did unplug fan from hatness and that didn't help any or didn't stop buzzing.
thanks for any help here
don

[Steve Moran]

Harness side of the connector.
Do not get a new one ECM. plug in the original one and check the wires. I am sure you will find the problem. then you can continue using the original one. (unless you turned it in as a core)
you can take your new one back that went bad and say it is defective, drive your car there so they can see it is running, they will be at am impass but to issue you a refund because the car is functioning correctly and the ECM is not working.

[hotrodharley]

checked those wires from plug to the darn buzzing box.they are looked good.i even traced each single wire.only one havn't checked is the black wire that goes toward battary ground[body ground by battery]i'd already turned in old ECM for core.the car started 12 times dueing that day i rplaced ECM.but late that afternoon it decided not to start again.box buzzing again.unplug the ECM and box stops buzzing.

[Steve Moran]

It will do that, it for sure is not the ECM.
I's say look at the wires deeper or do what I did. turn the key to the run position and pull efuse one at a time until the buzzing stops and then check out whatever the fuse runs.
Check the wiring and all.

[hotrodharley]

i unplug ECM and it stop buzzing .took fuse out for fan and box still buzzed.the last time i unplug the ECM and the box stop buzzing.i replaced ecm with new one.car started right up all day but then that night it started buzzing again and wouldn't start again..i unpluged new ECM and box stops buzzing..i took complete wire harness apart from fan all way to the box and all way to battary ground.everything looked perfeck.no sign what so ever of anything getting hot

[Steve Moran]

Don't unplug the ECM, unplug fuses in the fuse box one at a time.
What is happening to make the PCM buzz is a direct short and the only way to find it is to unplug fuses not the devices themselves.

[hotrodharley]

steve;;ok i did as you said.i started pulling fusses out.one at a time.when i remove the fuse for the ign coil&T.F.I. the thing stoped buzzing.i did it again but pulled each fuse one at time and did the ign coil/TFI last.same thing stop buzzing with that fuse removed.now what?i'd already replaced the TFI and ign coil with new ones the first day it wouldn't start if thats any help.

[MichiganTeddyBear]

now you know what circuits are causing the short.. time to trace wiring I think..

[Steve Moran]

Yup MTB is correct. Now you start to look at the wires and connectors.

[hotrodharley]

ha guys;;;;;the wiring harness and exposed wires are like new condition.this car is a life long nv. car.we don't get rust or any corrison what so ever.i've chased wiring harness down from every inch of it and there is no rubbing or tore places anywhere in it.i'm beginng to think it's time to sell this FORD PRODUCT.a quest. here.i do complete wiring jobs on show cars-hotrods.my experence is if a wire doesn't get brunt from being againist hot exhaust or gets rub into by being agains sharp objects then wiring doesn't go bad.and if theres a short then it pops the fuse first.my understanding is this is way we use fusses is to protect components and wiring from burning up.i just having hard time seeing how a wire can short out in a well protected harness.this darn car has 3 layers of protection around there wiring.this car only has 98000miles on it.it's not a wore out car that has had things cut on and splices made.still looks like it did off showroom floor.even under hood.when i went out to do the fuse check deal again for 5th time i try to start car.it started right up and ran a while then died.i don't understand if i have a wire shorted out againist something it would stall shorted until a person moved it.right.

[MichiganTeddyBear]

my experence is if a wire doesn't get brunt from being againist hot exhaust or gets rub into by being agains sharp objects then wiring doesn't go bad.

I strongly disagree with you... I got a 94 Jimmy that has about half of the door wiring 'bad'... no rubs, no obvious problems, still inside the protective sleeve... how do I know its bad??? well, lets see, depending on how far the door is open... either the power windows work, or the locks work, or dont work... purely a case of after nearly 200k miles of flexing, the strands INSIDE the insulation are broken...

And that is NOT the only car I have seen failed wiring on... in my 27 years of wrenching my own cars, I have seen it more often than I want to remember. and with only a very few exceptions, did the wires show any damage.

Yea, you would expect the fuse to blow first on a short. BUT that is usually only the case in which there are NO other feeds of power into a circuit... These damn cars (not just fords either) have power feeding from sooooo many different places into the various electronic parts, if one of em has problem, it can wreak havoc on lots of other systems.

Your show car and hot rod experience is all fine and good, and I am sure you do an excellent job at it, but its NOT the same as the wiring on mass produced vehicles... How many solid state relays and switches do you use in your vehicles??? well I know of 3 very large, heavy duty ones in the 88-94 conti right off the top of my head... one of which your working with now, the ABS relay, and the A/S compressor relay... and I am sure there are many others in the car, those are just some of most common problem ones on the Essex conti. And wiring up an MSD or other aftermarket ignition/injection system is a peice of cake compared to repairing what comes stock on these cars.. you have to remember, there are multiple option packages, causing parts to change/move, as well as different component vendors sometimes have different ends or placements... how many times have you had to take a part back to a store because you chose the wrong one of the 3 or 4 different ones that were avail????

[hotrodharley]

MTB;;theres a big difference from 2000000mile wiring and 98000mile wiring and you in a area that uses salt on the roads and lot of wettness in the air so your area you would have wiring breaking down after 200000miles in that area but here it is dry and they don't use any salt on highways.heck we can sand a car down to bare metal and set outside for a month and still won't even have service rust on it yet.

you would be surprise in how many relays-time relay devices-.with the new high end hotrods being built now days and i've been doing wiring for 40 years on customers cars and my own..cruise-a/c-p/w-p/d-electric seats-digital gauges-air ride system that is electronic controled-and now they want everything remote controled.just done a 54 chevy truck that has 21 remote control function wired into it.and this stuff there is no wiring digrames to follow or go by and no wiring harness you can buy.got to be done one wire at a time.not to even get into engine compartment that they are now doing comp electronic fuel inj and non dist type ign systems.anyhow this isn't getting the lincolon to start.OK GUYS;;;i've spent 4 hrs taking the wire harness apart and see no brunt or anything wrong with the wiring.everything still looks new.now that my wiring harness is all took apart and no wiring showing being shorted out then is there anything else i can check to solve this NO START deal?

[MichiganTeddyBear]

no argument here on your statements...

now lets see if we can get you started....

I dont know if this was asked before.. but do you have the factory manual for the car???

I know the 92's are avail at www.fordcds.com free for download (hope you have high speed connection). They include the EVTM (which is what we need). I have the 92 manual (use it on my 91 Essex, as well as my 92 cougar). they are invaluable, once you get used to reading them.

[hotrodharley]

no i don't have a book on it but THANKS i'll go to that site and see if they have one i can download.i have DSL so shouldn't be to bad

[hotrodharley]

MTB;the darn putter smarter then me.LOL;wouldn't or i wasn't doing something right but couldn't download so going to see if local book store has one i can check out.

[KENDO & MYRA]

after all this trouble i would tow it to a repair place and have them figure it out

[MichiganTeddyBear]

after all this trouble i would tow it to a repair place and have them figure it out

That is definately a possible solution. but some people like the challenge of finding a tough problem and repairing it. I for one do love that kind of challange. this is also fueled by the knowledge that I cannot afford to pay someone else to fix my problems on my cars.

As I type this I am in the middle of a complete 4 wheel brake job on the cougar (taking a lunch break). I have less than 160 bucks invested in ALL parts (pads, shoes, rotors, drums, hardware kit, supplies, ect)... I love the fact that that same brake job, done by some joe blow mechanic who may or may not give a damn about the quality of the work he does is gonna cost me twice that in parts, and at least 300 labor for the job.... When the job is done (and dont let anyone tell you that brake jobs are hard on todays cars), after about 4 hours of my time (working slowly because its about 100 in the shade here today, and I am not in the shade), I will have the nice warm fuzzy feeling inside me that tells me I just saved a ton of money doing it myself, and its also done RIGHT.

[Steve Moran]

I agree with you MTB.
That and the fact that many times if not most times, shops use lower grade parts to keep prices down.
You can often times buy much better quality to the best quality parts from a parts store and install them yourself for what it costs to have done at a shop.
Now do not mistake this for a statement of, Do not take it to the shop ever. because you will come across times where you just can't do it yourself. Unless you are very confident of your abilities and, can afford the tools to do the job safely and effectively.

[MichiganTeddyBear]

absolutely steve, I know my limitations, and if I have a job that exceeds them, I pay someone to do it. my limitations are usually tools required/place to do the repair (lifts, specialty tools, ect). I HATE to do exhaust work, and have paid to have it done, but if I am doing a total system, I will usually do it myself (lots easier to take old crap out if you dont need to worry about keeping a part of it intact).

I prefer to do my own repairs, but there are times of course when its not worth it for me to do it, or I dont have the tools. Prime example, when the cougar decided to drop a lower ball joint in front, I could have done the job, but the time frame I had avail for the repair (very little till I had to have it running again), coupled with the fact that the shop that did it for me gave me a very good price to do both upper and lower on the offending side, as well as alignment, and in good speedy time frame... I paid to have it done, after all, my time is worth money too.

[hotrodharley]

Believe Me If I Had The Money And Knowed That Someone Else Could Fix My No-start On My Car I'd Come Amp To Have Them Do It.but On Disabilty And I'm Hard Headed.i Think If They Can Fix It Then Theres No Reason I Can't.guess That Comes With Old Age And 40yrs Turning Wrenches Does To You But I'd Be First To Admitt This Car Is Kicking My Butt.get This.closed Hood 2 Days Back After 4 Hrs Pulling Wire Looms Apart And Not Finding Anything Wrong Yet And Still No Start I Gave Up.walked By Car Yesterday And Reached In And It Started Right Up;drove Half Day Around My Area[within Walking Dist..lol]and Car Never Missed A Lick Of Starting.went To Eat And Bame;came Out From Eating And No Start Again.

[MichiganTeddyBear]

its really sounding like a bad wire someplace, or a bad connection.. intermittant problems are some of the hardest to find.

[Steve Moran]

I am leaning on that my self, i am searching for schematics for the harness and connectors. I am not having any luck sofar.

[hotrodharley]

Another Thing That May Or May Not Have Anything To Do With My No Start..before This Happen Sometimes My Speed-o Meter Won't Work And Then Would All Sudden Start Working.most Time It Was Only For A Block Or Less.i Tried Starting Car This Morning And It Started Right Up Again.test Drove Around Block And Noticed That Speed-o-meter Was Working Then Stop Then Start.never Acted That Way Befor.this No Start Deal.as Car Was Still Running I Tugged-pulled And Twisted Wiring Harness Everywhere I Could Do It At And Engine Never Died.does Any This New Information Help Any?could The Speed-o-meter Senser Cause This No Start Deal?if So Where Is It Located At?

[MichiganTeddyBear]

most likely the speedo sensor wont cause the no start problem. My 91 has intermittant speedo problem and it does not have a start problem.

the speedo sensor (VSS) is located on the top of the trans, kinda behind the engine (I believe you need to get to it from underneath). I guess its pretty tight in that spot, as I have heard you may need to lower the y-pipe a bit to get to it. I have been procrastinating on swapping mine out. NOTE: there is the VSS itself, and then a drive gear/shaft that wears too. might as well change both out if your gonna do it.

[hotrodharley]

Thanks Mtb;;didn't Think It Would Give Me A No Start But Grabing In The Wind For A Fix

[Steve Moran]

I have been asking all the Mechanics I know and they are at a loss, I have racked my brain (Two cells) and I am stumped.
I know with enough time I will find the answer but I know you don't have the time.
I am the kind of guy that can't stop thinking about a problem untill it is solved.

[hotrodharley]

since my last post i go to car 3or4 times daily and it starts right up and runs[don't dare try to drive-don't want to walk]today i started it and i pulled on every connection i can touch and twisted and pulled on wiring harness.the car won't die.i figgure if there is a short[2 wires melted togeather or a broken wire]then when i pulled in that area it should short or loose contact and die but nothing.if car gets to the no start mode then would a shop with a good scanner be able to scan car and pick up whats wrong?

[MichiganTeddyBear]

a code scanner might pick it up, but not sure. its on OBD-1 system, and not as much stuff was monitored as in the OBD-II's.

[Steve Moran]

will you take a look inside the distributor cap and see how the carbon button and the terminals look?

[hotrodharley]

steve;;MTB;;;i talked to a guy that works at the gold mines that use to work at a ford linc dealership for 8 years.he said he has had this same thing with serveral cars and said it was the stator inside dist. was bad..what do you guys think.????steve i'll look at cap again in daylight and see what it looks like.it would not hurt anyway to replace.i'd say hasn't never been replaced since new.

[MichiganTeddyBear]

I suppose it could be, especially since you have an intermittant problem. I had an 87 Dodge Shadow with a tubo'ed 4 banger that had an intermittant pickup.. mine was fixed under warranty tho, as it was less than a year old when it croaked.. but yea, it could cause a no start condition.

[Steve Moran]

I have seen that myself but only in older cars that had a vacuume advance dist. the movement would break the wires where they flexed.
It is worth a look thoe.

[MichiganTeddyBear]

the Shadow I had would fail when warm.. and no vacuum advance there, fully electronic system on that engine

[hotrodharley]

I want to thank steve and MTB for all your help on my NO START ..got it fixed.found the plug-in for ground of the PCM box by batt. was bad.had hood open looking at things again with key on and pcm box buzzing.i lightly touched this plug and box stoped buzzing.i then inspected it and couldn't see a thing wrong with plug.tugged and twisted and pulled on that plug and had no effect so went ahead and unpluged it and still nothing looked wrong but went ahead and cut plug out of harness and solidered wires togeather bypassing plug and car has been starting and running since sunday.IT IS FIXED.THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP GUYS.

[MichiganTeddyBear]

glad you got it fixed... them damn electrical problems can be a biatch.