92 conti exec, won't start

[progger1]

My '92 cranks but doesn't start. I checked the fuel pump shutoff switch in the trunk and it didn't need to be reset. I put a screwdriver down into the schrader valve and got a little "pop" of gas. To me this is saying that there is no pressure. It didn't feel like any sort of pressure relief. I know this is not the desired test but in lieu of a pressure guage this is what I did. Anyhow, I'm trying to go about testing systematically. The manual says to check for a connection at the FP lead and ground it if it is present. I'm not sure of the terminology in the manual. Is the self-test connector and the VIP test connector the same. If not what is the difference??? It tells me that the far right position of the self test connector is the FP lead. There is a wire running to it and a connector exists there. When I'm told to ground this connector what exactly do they mean??? Run a wire from the connector to the body of the car or to an existing ground connection on the car??? I'm trying to get the fuel pump to run with the key on and hoping to build up pressure. Shouldn't pressure have built up when I cranked the engine???? Was the little "pop" of gas (a little spurt) indicative of fuel pressure????
Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

[KENDO & MYRA]

i think i would get a scanner and pull the codes and start from there to see if i get a idea whats up

[progger1]

I did pull codes and got a 176, 656, and a 533. But, the instructions on the code reader say to warm the engine first. I'm unable to do this because the car won't start. So I'm suspicious of the codes.
176: O2 sensor not switching. HO2S- fuel control.
656: Torque converter , clutch.
533: DCL

I think that these are OBDII codes. And I'm a 92 engine. So.....

[progger1]

Let me restate.

176: Lack of Oxygen Sensor (HEGO) switches, indicates lean (left side) --- Not getting any fuel???

533: Data communications link to electronic instrument cluster (EIC) fault


656: Converter Clutch Control continuous slip error detected


Anyone have any suggestions????

[MichiganTeddyBear]

176 will be a stored code, may have happened in past and is just stored. probably indicating a failing O2 sensor

533.. a DCL tuneup http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00086.html may fix that, its not preventing the engine from starting... if the tech article dont do it, I am working on an updated one that should fix it (but requires considerable skill to perform).

656.. not sure what to say on that, sounds like a tranny problem, may be fixable by simple fluid/filter change, may not.

The 176 and 656 codes mean nothing if engine aint running (stored codes), and the 533 wont keep engine from running (the car will actually run and drive ok without an instrument panel in it at all!

[progger1]

I agree with your statements. Which leads me back to the original question about the fuel pressure at the schrader valve. I relieve it and there is not much in there. I want to diagnose the problem. I want to test things like the fuel pump, fuel pump relay??? etc. I'm having trouble understanding the terminology. If I ground the specific pin in the test connector, presumably to the car body(or negative battery terminal) and then turn the key to on, is this supposed to start the fuel pump?????????

[KENDO & MYRA]

how about a guage to measure the preasure on the fuel rail

[KENDO & MYRA]

how about old dirty fuel filters,cloged filters give low fuel preasure,also get a guage and measure the preasure on the fuel rail with the key on and see what it says

[KENDO & MYRA]

tttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

[Steve Moran]

I agree with your statements. Which leads me back to the original question about the fuel pressure at the schrader valve. I relieve it and there is not much in there. I want to diagnose the problem. I want to test things like the fuel pump, fuel pump relay??? etc. I'm having trouble understanding the terminology. If I ground the specific pin in the test connector, presumably to the car body(or negative battery terminal) and then turn the key to on, is this supposed to start the fuel pump?????????
Ok yo answer your question about the jumper to ground.
Yes there is a connector, It should be in the trunk and looks like a rectangle with two corners cut out, it also has two rows of terminals in it, one row has two and the other row has four.
Holding the connector so the row of two pins is upward you need to ground the lower right terminal.
Then when you turn on the key the Fuel Pump should continue to run.

Kendo is correct about needing a guage to test the pressure.
He has been on the right track in asking you good questions in aiding you and he seems to de doing well.

If you post more results I will give you some info as to the whole diagnosis of the fuel system.

[KENDO & MYRA]

thanks steve

[progger1]

OK, I finally got a fuel pressure guage and when I crank the engine I'm getting close to 40 psi. and when you stop cranking it goes down. news to me. SO!!!! my guess is wrong , how do I proceed without buying expensive diagnostic equipment. Or at least not that much right now.......... Thanks for your help.

p.s. sorry I took so long to get back but I had to buy a guage on the cheap. from ebay and they sent it snail mail..........

[KENDO & MYRA]

when i thought i had a fuel problem,i put some starting fluid in and started it to see weather it was a fuel problem or electrical......if its electrical it wont start,if its fuel,it should turn over.................oh and by the way, how's your wires,cap,rotor, plug's ?

[98TC-Cartier]

Your fuek system should hold some pressure for quite a while. If it drops to zero quickly, I'd suspect a leaky injector, or maybe a bad check valve in the pump. or a leaking fuel pressure regulator.

edit: I pulled some injectors off a 3.8 taurus after it had been sitting for over a week and gas sprayed out of the shraeder valve, and it was not just a dribble.

[Steve Moran]

Pull the vacuum hose off the fuel pressure regulator and look down in the nipple on the regulator, if you see fuel or if you see fuel as you turn the key and pump up the pressure, then the regulator is shot.

If not it is very likely an injector leaks. You will need a strong injector cleaner like 44K or something along that line. Seafoam might help a little but it will not get the calcified crap out.

[progger1]

when i thought i had a fuel problem,i put some starting fluid in and started it to see weather it was a fuel problem or electrical......if its electrical it wont start,if its fuel,it should turn over.................oh and by the way, how's your wires,cap,rotor, plug's ?
Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure about the wires, cap, rotor, plugs etc. I don't think they're original. They look newer than that. I guess it's a good idea to replace them anyhow.
As far as starting fluid, I'm guessing that you're saying to spray it into the throttle body????
Steve, I"ll try the fuel pressure regulator visual test tonight when I get home. (I'm at work). I did order some 44k. ebay of course.
Do any of these symptoms prevent the car from starting????? If I do have a leak doesn't my fuel rail test indicate that I should be getting fuel to the injectors anyway????? I'll write more when I've done the tests...............

[Steve Moran]

Yes you do have fuel at the injectors but you could have a lack of pressure to get them to fire or if they fire the spray patern could be lacking enough that the fuel dose not atomize enough to work correctly.

[progger1]

Ok, I see what you're saying. I hope this is the problem................Thanks for your help.

[progger1]

I checked the fuel pressure regulator, took it off (PITA) and inspected the little figure 8 gasket. Before that I looked down into the vacuum line connection. No gas inside. I put everything together.
All of the cranking of the engine wore the battery down. So I jumped it and the car started. When I was cranking the engine it would get to the point of almost turning over. I got it there several times. It wouldn't start. Will a weak battery allow the car to crank but not start????????? It was so close to starting that I could never believe the battery may be the problem..............

[MichiganTeddyBear]

it could be possible.. not enough voltage for a good spark, or the fuel pump pressure drops due to low voltage... or could have had bad connections on battery terminals and the jump start jiggled em enough for good connection.

[KENDO & MYRA]

look,i would throw some starting fluid down the throddle body to see if it starts,if it does,then you know its not electrical and maybe its just the injector problem,in any case ,if it starts ,bring it to a repair place and get it fixed