Oh no.

[Rollin6Dr]

I drove the lincoln to work today, she drove great. I was getting ready to go to a movie, and it started for a second then died. So I tryed jumping the relay, nothing. Tested the cutoff switch got juice. Now where do I look, you guys were saying there is a ground by the power antenna? I see two grounds so I'm not sure which is which. If I'm getting power to the cut off switch and the fuel pump works fine or not at all does that mean it's either a bad ground or connector?

[87 town]

I drove the lincoln to work today, she drove great. I was getting ready to go to a movie, and it started for a second then died. So I tryed jumping the relay, nothing. Tested the cutoff switch got juice. Now where do I look, you guys were saying there is a ground by the power antenna? I see two grounds so I'm not sure which is which. If I'm getting power to the cut off switch and the fuel pump works fine or not at all does that mean it's either a bad ground or connector?

The things to look for with a no start like this would be..(Of course, first thought is the battery connections). after that,
make sure the distributor wire is plugged in good into ignition coil and distributor. (But you would still get a crank, even if disconneted, just would never start). On the pass side firewall, check the selonoid connections. There should be a little rubber cap wire going over the threaded bolt end coming out of the selonoid. Make sure the rubber tip is snug on the threads. (Sometimes the rubber cap will come loose or get a bad/corroded connection as well as a possible loose connection on the coil wire from "vibrations"). If these connections are good, you can also test start off the selonoid, unless you have already by saying, you tried to jump off the relay?..
If you have not tried this, then take a long flat screwdriver, have ignition key on and remove the rubber wire connector to the seloniod I mentioned and firmly press the screwdriver on that bolt end and ground to something else, (not the selonoid), and see if she cranks or starts. If you get crank here by by passing the selonoid, then you can look closer at the selonoid for connections or replacement.
You may still be getting juice in some areas of the car, even if the distributor wire and/or seloniod connections are bad.

[Rollin6Dr]

It cranks over fine, there is just no fire.

[Ivan D.]

I'd say TFI module is dead.

[87 town]

It cranks over fine, there is just no fire.


Top of my head here... The Haynes Manual for troubleshooting will have more to offer, maybe someone is near their book and it will provide a list of things to check out for your specific problem. Cranks, but will not start.

A few thought of mine are..

1) Distributor wire...already mentioned (check connections)
2) Selonoid...already mentioned (by pass start)
3) Vapor lock
4) May seem dumb here...but, no gas, will give the same effect.
5) Ignition coil could be bad (check tower where wire plugs into for corrosion.

[Rollin6Dr]

TFI module, not sure what that is more info? I can hear that the fuel pump isn't running.But why is a diffrent story.

[Elemino]

TFI module is that slender box sticking out of the side of the Distributor... if everything is in working order, fuel, spark, and it doesn't try to start at all... it sounds like an ignition system problem... likely the module, more likely the stator (which is inside of the distributor).

[87 town]

TFI module, not sure what that is more info? I can hear that the fuel pump isn't running.But why is a diffrent story.

TFI Module is a possibility. The TFI module is attached to the lower portion of the distributor shaft and has some plug in's. It it flat and rectangular shaped and about the size of a playing card and maybe
1" thick. It is related to starting the car and they do go bad and you may crank but not start....but...there are other things you can also consider first regarding your fuel delivery.
You say,the fuel pump isn't running?? This is huge and would be the entire reason for the problem. I would look at this area first.

1) You may have blown a fuse for the fuel pump. I have not personally changed one before but I believe it is in the fuse box under your dash. Maybe someone out there can be more specific here??

2) Another thing you can do is go in the trunk and under the driver side hinge area you can see a metal box that houses the "fuel pump inertia switch" and yuo can press down the white button to reset the fuel pump. This is a safety switch to stop/start the fuel pump. Maybe it vibrated into the off position or it got disturbed in the trunk? I really don't think this is it though, but worth a try to see if it will reset your fuel pump. To determine for sure if the pump is working, and you may already know this, is to turn key to "on" position while someone listens with the gas filler cap off to see if you/they hear a whirring sound for a couple seconds from the pump starting up.

3) Other than this you can check the "fuel pump relay" which is located directly behind the window wash fluid container on the driver side firewall. On the firwewall there are 2 rectangle shaped black plastic covers attached to a metal bracket with two little bolts on a plate going into the firewall. Your fuel relay is in the black box closest to the front of the engine and it has wire plug in's coming out of the bottom of it. The relay itself is approx. a few inches long and a couple inches high and a couple inches wide. The black box is just a housing for the relay within.
There is a way to test it, and I will "try" to explain this... I will quote from the Haynes book. "Remove the fuel pump relay and install a jumper wire into the fuel pump relay "terminals" that power the fuel pump. If you hear the fuel pump working by jumping like this then the relay is bad. It is very easy to replace the relay if this is the problem determined after the test.
If you still don't hear the pump working at this point then the problem could be in the fuel pump circuit from the relay panel to the fuel pump, defective power relay or the fuel pump itself.

Process of elimination.... But for sure without the pump working, she won't ever start. If you get the pump working and still won't start then you can look at other things, but I would almost guarantee that once the pump is "pumpin" she will start right up!

[gadget73]

You can hear the fuel pump run, but there is no spark? 99% chance its a dead TFI module. Mine did exactly this. I was at a stop light and it just died with no warning. Dropped in my spare distributor and away i went.

[Rollin6Dr]

I cannot hear the fuel pump running, it just died all of a sudden. Then I put a new fuel pump relay and it worked for a day and then I got it home and tryed to start it later that night and it just turned over and over and over. I've jumped the fuel pump relay, and jumped the cutoff switch and still no fuel pump running.

[87 town]

You can hear the fuel pump run, but there is no spark? 99% chance its a dead TFI module. Mine did exactly this. I was at a stop light and it just died with no warning. Dropped in my spare distributor and away i went.

Spare distributor in the trunk.. Gotta like that...lol
I remember paying a lot for a new TFI installed some years ago. Had no idea at the time what the mechanic was up to. Next time, I will change myself. They seem to "melt down" in time.

I think there is short somewhere with rollins6dr problem. Fuel Pump worked with a new relay for a day and then stopped again...
Haynes book says to check for short at this point if pump will not continue to work... Other than that, I'm not sure.

[Fordace]

when you turn the key forward to the run position, do you
hear the relays click on, then off? (NOT cranking), just to "run" ?

[Rollin6Dr]

Yeah, thats all I hear.

[Rollin6Dr]

I was reading the "fuel into throttle body" thread and I sprayed some starting fluid into the TB the car started right up and then died. So spark seems to be no problem.

[87 town]

I was reading the "fuel into throttle body" thread and I sprayed some starting fluid into the TB the car started right up and then died. So spark seems to be no problem.

I'm starting to think that something is wrong with the fuel pump itself since you changed the relay and the fuse is good, or was good, or you wouldn't have gotten the one good day out of it working.
Pump or short somewhere.....now that "you know" you have spark.
Nice little test, the quick shot into the throttle. Now your thinking can be more directed to fuel delivery and not all over the place.

[Rollin6Dr]

If it were the fuel pump, why would it have not worked, then worked, now not worked again? Where can I look for shorted wires? I don't even know the color of the wires ran back to the fuel pump.

[87 town]

If it were the fuel pump, why would it have not worked, then worked, now not worked again? Where can I look for shorted wires? I don't even know the color of the wires ran back to the fuel pump.


Are you positive that the "inertia switch" in the trunk isn't getting hit and cut the fuel pump off? Unlikely though, since the new relay did get it working again without resetting the switch...But it wouldn't hurt to rest anyhow, just in case.

Lets see...(I'm just gonna think out loud here and look to the Haynes Manual as well)...After you tested and jumped the original realay you found it was not any good..the new relay worked, so that meant fuse was not the problem. stopped working again though for no reason.
Fuse (was it blown since the new relay?)
New relay (did the new one die also and if so, why?)
What about testing the new realy now by jumping it? If the new relay is dead through the test which would mean the jump starts the pump, then it would seem relay is getting shorted out somehow. If the jumper test does not make the pump work you can assume the new relay is still good, leaving the fuse as a possible but probably not it since the new relay did work originally without fuse replacement?

okay, if the new relay and fuse is good, then it leaves, according to Haynes Manual, 1) problem in fuel pump circuit from the relay to the fuel pump 2) defective power relay 3) defective fuel pump
1) Haynes lists out a diagram on the circuits, but I can't follow em properly to direct you. 2) Not sure how to locate power relay either but it draws power from the battery and ends up at the relay 3) Book tells how to test fuel pressure..but not how to test the pump itself when you are not getting power from it at all, although if you could test the wiring at the pump and the pump is getting proper power, it seems that you have a bad pump. I know it has worked and then stopped and worked, but if you are getting power to the pump, the pump itself may be shorting out and coming on and off ?
Maybe someone else can be more helpful at this point telling you how to find and test the power relay and circuit to the pump to see if you have power to the pump.

[Rollin6Dr]

So it's possible that the pump is shorting out IN the tank? I jumped the fuel pump relay, then tested the cutoff switch and was getting power then I jumped the connector on that goes to the cutoff switch just to be sure it wasn't the cutoff switch, and still nothing. So it seems that power is getting all the way to the cutoff switch. I just dunno anymore.

[gadget73]

I still wouldn't be surprised if the fuel pump is extremely close to dead, and it just happened to decide to work for a bit longer. You can get under the car and check for voltage at the connector for the pump. If its got power there, its the pump. You're looking for the plug together connector thats routed through the piece of angle iron on the frame up above the gas tank. The connector on the front of the tank thats real easy to see is for the fuel level sender.

[87 town]

So it's possible that the pump is shorting out IN the tank? I jumped the fuel pump relay, then tested the cutoff switch and was getting power then I jumped the connector on that goes to the cutoff switch just to be sure it wasn't the cutoff switch, and still nothing. So it seems that power is getting all the way to the cutoff switch. I just dunno anymore.

gadget73 hit it right on the head. Be sure that pump is good since all else seems to be okay. you may be able to replace yourself too. there is a good tutorial in the Haynes Manual also for the replacement of the fuel pump. i never changed one, but it doesn't look like a big deal.
let us know!

[Fordace]

Just a thought before pulling the fuel pump. Did you check the 2 large black ground wires that go to the EEC Ground harness off the negative battery cable split?

These have been known to get green with corrosion and will not supply enough or any ground to the fuel pump. Easy to check, pull them apart and look for the green acid crap.....

[Rollin6Dr]

I finally had sometime to get under the car and poke around, I unplugged the fuel pump connector, jumped the relay, had power to the fuel pump connector, I plugged the connector back together and the fuel pump began to run I started to car and moved the car to the concrete pad so I can use my creeper next time to get under it. Think I should just spray the connectors with some electrical contact cleaner? It doesn't seem to be a problem before for the connector and it seems that the fuel pump works fine when it is getting power.

[Mr Wiggl3s]

O you know what, it may be your little ground box thing. Its the thing that has everything grounded to it, right by the left quarter panel, we had to replace that a few times

[Ivan D.]

O you know what, it may be your little ground box thing. Its the thing that has everything grounded to it, right by the left quarter panel, we had to replace that a few times
Is that little ground box thing in the engine bay? On the left fenderwell there I have the cruise vacuum servo, the HVAC vacuum canister, the ignition coil, two boxes with 4 relays, and the washer tank, in that order back to front - which is the little ground box thing you speak of?

[Rollin6Dr]

Could it have been a dirty connector? I'm gunna clean it out with some QD electronic cleaner. It is weird that it works on and off like this.

[Rollin6Dr]

I drove it about 10 miles after I cleaned the connector and it worked fine the entire time :confused: any thoughts?

[87 town]

I drove it about 10 miles after I cleaned the connector and it worked fine the entire time :confused: any thoughts?


No words of wisdom here...Only thought is...that you fixed it. Time will tell you for sure, but it seems like you had a bad connection and now you don't.

[Rollin6Dr]

Well it was weird that the fuel pump wasn't working then I unplugged and replugged the connection and it magically worked. I'll let you guys know if it doesn't do it again, I think I might try to take her to work this saturday.

[87 town]

Well it was weird that the fuel pump wasn't working then I unplugged and replugged the connection and it magically worked. I'll let you guys know if it doesn't do it again, I think I might try to take her to work this saturday.

Know what you mean about being a little skeptical when driving to work after any type of problem. I test drive for a while in my area, "just in case", and then build up a confidence level and then slowly begin to count on her again. Don't need any tow trucks in my future...

[Elemino]

The one and only time I had my car towed was then my stator went out in a Home Depot parking lot. I made sure it was a flatbed truck, I didn't want any damage from towing her down the street. Not to mention if you follow the directions given, you need to disconnect the drive shaft... not going to happen.

The fact the stator can disable the entire car almost made me want to sell and get a desiel. I'd still like to have one though. :D

[joedogg]

Just curious, what the heck is a stator?

[87 town]

The one and only time I had my car towed was then my stator went out in a Home Depot parking lot. I made sure it was a flatbed truck, I didn't want any damage from towing her down the street. Not to mention if you follow the directions given, you need to disconnect the drive shaft... not going to happen.

The fact the stator can disable the entire car almost made me want to sell and get a desiel. I'd still like to have one though. :D

consider yourself fortunate...only 1 tow. just last year alone I think i had 2. (front end dropped once right after getting off the x-way, tie rod end) and another time i had a major electrical short after trying to jump her after work on a frigid 20 below zero day.. i could go on, but i won't....still gotta luv her though. sort of like a woman to me (either love or hate, depending on what is happenning at that moment)...hahaha

[Elemino]

Just curious, what the heck is a stator?http://partimages.genpt.com/partimages/50870.jpg

That is a stator. It goes inside of your distributor and tells the ignition system what position it is in so it knows when to spark. If it goes bad, you get no spark. The car turns over, but does not start.

[joedogg]

Oh sweet, learn something new everyday! Thanks Elemino.

[Rollin6Dr]

Thanks again for all the advice, I had the problem come back and haunt me a couple months back. Turned out to be a short between the relay and fuel pump. Fixed it and it runs like a champ again.