Ford to Lose Fuel Filler Caps

[Shrewsbury]

Huh? Anyone see this? I *LIKE* my locking screw down caps.

http://www.fftimes.com/index.php/17/2006-08-11/26573

[luxuryrules]

Huh. Clever. Any word on long term longevity? If it's a spring loaded mechanism I would imagine after ten years it won't shut all the way...?

[v8_dave]

Cool, soon I'l lhave to carry around a block to use in place of the cap to hold the nozzle flowing so I can sit in my cozy car. :(

[luxuryrules]

Careful dude while you're getting in & out of your car. I forget the exact sequence of how it works, but you can trigger a spark that way. I believe the safe way was to jump out with both feet at the same time so you're never a ground to the car.

[v8_dave]

Careful dude while you're getting in & out of your car. I forget the exact sequence of how it works, but you can trigger a spark that way. I believe the safe way was to jump out with both feet at the same time so you're never a ground to the car.

Ohh your right! That is a problem in the dry winters up here. I never actualy have done it but now that I found that gas cap/wedge thing I was planning to. Good call. Being leather it probably isnt the same effect but no sense in taking that chance.

[luxuryrules]

Yeah I can't imagine the odds are really all that great at it happening, but I'm sure it has.

Come to think of it, I wonder if there really are any documented cases of that? Mythbusters shot down the cell phone theory, and unfortunately that's all there is to be found on the web.

In retrospect, looking around the internet for gas station explosions probably got me flagged by the FBI or something.

[Led Zephyrlin]

I feel a need to interject. I worked with fuel trucks in the past and the main concern was the static discharge when you actually step out of the car and touch the nozzle to remove it from the tank. The fumes right at the opening to the tank are where ignition has in fact occured in the past and will continue to occur in the future.

If your going to sit in your car there is no problem there, just be sure to touch the car and or pump before removing the nozzle from the tank and you will never have a problem.

Just so you know, it is military policy to always ground the refueling vehicle and the vehicle being refueled prior to pumping.

I understand the rareity of conditions being right to cause a fire but is it worth taking the chance?

[luxuryrules]

Thanks Led. Always good to have specifics - I knew there was a way I just forgot what it was.

[v8_dave]

Ok so basicly if there is going to be spark, make it happen away from gas fumes. I will see, maybe only if it is only really windy and cold out. Thanks guys.

[nailfoot]

I have a question. Do the gas stations in your area not have built in locking tabs on the handle? Every gas station I have ever went to for compettor shopping has lock tabs so you can lock the pump on while you wash your windows or whatever.

My truck stop considers it a customer service issue, and I replace any nozzle that the tab has broken on.

[DebSol]

Some of the stations around here have the locking tabs ground off, or otherwise removed. Don't know why, maybe to help curb driveoffs?

[v8_dave]

My state is about 50/50 as well. I know in NY it is a law that they be removed IIRC. Correct me if Im wrong. Not sure on the reason but Debsol might be right, or a safety issue of sorts.

[MichiganTeddyBear]

in michigan, its more with the locking mechanisms than dont have it, but your are supposed to remain in view of the nozzle during filling in case the autoshut off dont work (has happened to me). taking the lock off the nozzle helps to encourage watching what your doing to prevent over fills.

Also in MI there is no requirement for vapor recovery YIPEE!!!

as a side note.. when I got my Jimmy, it had a replacement cap on it with a hole and flap arrangement on it similar to what ford is talking about.. so aftermarket options exist already!

[Shrewsbury]

Here in WV, it's probably 4:1 in favor of stations that have the locking tabs in place to those that don't. The ones that have removed them have done so to ensure that you stay with your vehicle to curb spillovers. I like the convenience, but I can also understand why a station owner would remove them. A gasoline spill is a major safety hazard that's no fun to clean up.

[v8_dave]

Ohhh No vapor recovery? Why would you care about that? Its not like it sucks fumes out of your tank stealing your money.
I guess the spill thing could be a problem. But self service stations, they guy walks away from when its filling :rolleyes:

[ricoba]

I read the article and saw the news report the other day about the Fuel Filler Caps. But I am curious as to what the replacement will look like? Any pics? Thanks

[Shrewsbury]

Ohhh No vapor recovery? Why would you care about that? Its not like it sucks fumes out of your tank stealing your money.
I guess the spill thing could be a problem. But self service stations, they guy walks away from when its filling :rolleyes:

You can't top off with a vapor recovery system (stage 2). If you try, the vapor return line will suck the liquid fuel back that has been metered to your bill back into the dispenser system, so you pay the station to keep your fuel. We don't have stage 2 vapor recovery here, either. Every tanker driver DOES use stage 1 when unloading at the station, though (vapor balance return to truck from station tanks). The driver would be suicidal to not use stage 1.

[v8_dave]

You can't top off with a vapor recovery system (stage 2). If you try, the vapor return line will suck the liquid fuel back that has been metered to your bill back into the dispenser system, so you pay the station to keep your fuel. We don't have stage 2 vapor recovery here, either. Every tanker driver DOES use stage 1 when unloading at the station, though (vapor balance return to truck from station tanks). The driver would be suicidal to not use stage 1.

Woa! The things you learn on LoL. This is the stage 2 nozzle. This is exactly the ones we have here in CT. I always thought the do not top off was so you dont spill. But really it just sucks up the fuel through these holes!

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/air/AirToxics/images/VacAssistWithHoles5thView.JPG

[MichiganTeddyBear]

when I was referring to no vapor recovery, I was referring to the pumps, (ie stage 2). the drivers do use stage one!

[Shrewsbury]

Yeah Dave, the holes are designed to suck the vapor back, but they will suck liquid fuel back, too. The idea is to control VOC (volatile organic compounds) emissions, which combine with NOx (formed from combustion - mostly from cars but also from combustion power plants) on hot days (read: summer) to make ground level ozone (O3). Thus the O3 non-attainment problems in the northeast and California and the requirements to implement CARB stage 1, 2, & 3 vapor recovery (3 is on-board carbon filters). Too many cars in these areas have driven the power plants out (so this relates to the other thread, too, in explaining the high electricity rates in these areas). Combustion power plants are required to control NOx emissions regardless of where they are in the US, but it's cheaper and easier to do it in the midwest (less car density and moving weather). It's also much easier to force NOx controls on huge stationary power plants than to force them on automobiles, both in practical and political terms. This is why some states have emissions requirements for cars and others don't. Southern CA is the most stringent because they have so many cars in such a small area and the weather is virtually stagnant all the time. This has contributed to the electricity crunch there; it's cheaper and easier for power producers to leave the state than to comply. The local customer is one that suffers due to surging demand and long distance transmission losses.
stratospheric ozone = good (absorbs carcinogenic solar UV rays, but chlorine based refrigerants destroy it, thus the demise of R-12)
ground level ozone = bad (irritates the breathing passages and contributes to asthma)
Cars are the number one enemy of the global environment, period.

[v8_dave]

Thanks Shrew, it puts things in perspective that I hadnt thought were related prior. Interesting...