1988 TC issues

[redline]

First off I'd like to say hi to everyone. I have had my 1988 TC Signature for over 1 year and put about 12,000 miles on it. It has 155,000 on the clock.

I have recently ran into some issues and was browsing the Tech articles and I must say it has been a great help. I am looking for advice on 2 problems I currently have.

1. The battery was just replaced less than a month ago and it is dead again. I am thinking it is either a bad alternator or a drain condition? How would I check these?

2. I am also having a cold stall problem. It fires right up and then dies within 5 seconds. If I use just the wieght of my foot it will hold a idle. When it is warm it will idle but seems to be a little below normal. Could these issues be related?

Dumb Question? where is the check engine light in the 88 TC, It does not illuminate when i turn the key on.

[joedogg]

According to Derek there is no check engine light:

Well I owned an 88 Town Car and there was definately no Check Engine light, even though there is a place for one I looked, I even fitted a bulb in the holder and it still wouldn't light, it is also not featured in the 88 EVTM.

I don't think your battery is a drain condition, does it ever just die on you overnight? If its just the batt wearing out I highly doubt it could be a drain condition.

[Elemino]

1. The battery was just replaced less than a month ago and it is dead again. I am thinking it is either a bad alternator or a drain condition? How would I check these?Have you been driving the car? If you have been driving the car, it isn't the alternator, something is draining the battery. If it was the alt the battery would go dead while you were driving or out on a trip to somewhere. Most likely on a short trip you would make it to your destination and then you wouldn't be able to start the car again. If the car has just been sitting you may need to check for something draining the battery.

[redline]

Have you been driving the car? If you have been driving the car, it isn't the alternator, something is draining the battery. If it was the alt the battery would go dead while you were driving or out on a trip to somewhere. Most likely on a short trip you would make it to your destination and then you wouldn't be able to start the car again. If the car has just been sitting you may need to check for something draining the battery.

Yes I drive it everyday. I'll come out in the morning and it is dead. This is third time I need a jump. The first time Wal-Mart replaced the battery for free due to a 3 year free replacement. The new battery has died twice this month and required a jump.

[joedogg]

That could easily be a drain on the power. Try disconnecting the battery overnight and see if it stops happening. Then you can go to lookin' for leaks. Someone will probably know a better method of finding them than I will.

[Elemino]

Something is definately draining the battery then. There could be numerous things causing it. I had a similar problem recently. I would notice prior to my battery being completely dead the alt would be warm for no reason. Car had been sitting so long the engine itself was cold, but the alt was warm. Turned out a wire running to the control harness (the three wires on the back) had a place where the insulation had melted. The wire was making contact with the fuseable link running to the battery. In other words the alt was in an "on" state even when the car wasn't running, so instead of charnging the battery it drained it. A good way to really test this theory is to unplug the harness from the alt at night and if the battery is still fully charged, you know it's alt related.

[87 town]

Something is definately draining the battery then. There could be numerous things causing it. I had a similar problem recently. I would notice prior to my battery being completely dead the alt would be warm for no reason. Car had been sitting so long the engine itself was cold, but the alt was warm. Turned out a wire running to the control harness (the three wires on the back) had a place where the insulation had melted. The wire was making contact with the fuseable link running to the battery. In other words the alt was in an "on" state even when the car wasn't running, so instead of charnging the battery it drained it. A good way to really test this theory is to unplug the harness from the alt at night and if the battery is still fully charged, you know it's alt related.


I do think that the alt is not giving you a full or steady charge or maybe overcharge. Good testing tip by elemino.
regarding the idle: sounds like the ICM, Idle Control Motor, which sits against the firewall on the driver side, right behind the upper intake plenum. It is a cylinder type part about maybe 6 to 8" long. Someone may be able to post a pic... It works with the computer brain to regulate the idle. Sometimes they get stuck or just need to be replaced. A real easy install and cost "about" $70. Been a few years since I replaced mine.
To check it out you can unplug the electric plug in while ideling and watch for any differences in the idle. If idle gets worse, most likely it is working and may not be the problem. If no change at all when you unplug it and still idling crazy, probably not working at all. Sometimes tapping it with a screwdriver will unstick it also. I was having similar problems on cold start up, idling too low or high and occassionally surging. just not acting right. this part solved my problem. If it is the ICM and it is only acting up occassionally right now and you cannot be sure, it will let you know in time as it will probably get worse and you will experience crazy idling more and more and not just on cold starts. It will surge high while you are sitting at a stop light or maybe want to stall out and just become very eratic. but as always, before just throwing a part in there, test it first.
Could also be a bad, maybe stuck open, EGR valve, or may be vacume leak related. My first thought though is the ICM.

[redline]

Thanks guys for the timely posts. The idle problem I am gong to be cleaning out/Voltage test the IAC, TPS and EGR along with running some Sea Foam through it.

I really don't have the patience to track down a drain. But I am good with troubleshooting and a fluke meter. I just need a wiring diagram? Anyone have on for a 1988 TC Sig ?

[Dereck]

Hi Redline

Try the deck lid pull down motor (feel if it is warm) as a source of your power drain, the switch break causing the motor to stay on, next assuming all courtesy lights exstinguish suspect the alternator.

Sticky IAC is a good place to start for your stalling problem, there is also an "anti gunge" spacer plate modification for the IAC.

AS I have allready been quoted, there is no check engine light on an 88.

For wiring diagrams get your self an EVTM (Electrical & Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual) or subscribe to alldatadiy.com

Regards

Dereck

[87 town]

Thanks guys for the timely posts. The idle problem I am gong to be cleaning out/Voltage test the IAC, TPS and EGR along with running some Sea Foam through it.

I really don't have the patience to track down a drain. But I am good with troubleshooting and a fluke meter. I just need a wiring diagram? Anyone have on for a 1988 TC Sig ?

someone will probably post a diagram. another option also is to pick up a Haynes Manual. full wiring diagrams and much more. I rely on this site a great deal, but having a Haynes has also been pretty helpful.
I like sea foam! I have used it in the oil and fuel as well.

[redline]

Shouldn't I run the SeaFoam through the intake and then replace the PCV. The fuel system was just redone with a new tank and filter. So I am good their. I would like to hear more on the oil treatment. I am assuming you do it right before you change the oil?

[Dereck]

Hi Redline

Look up placebo in the dictionary and it will say "The percieved increase in gas milage and engine power from using Seafoam".

Regards

Dereck

[87 town]

Shouldn't I run the SeaFoam through the intake and then replace the PCV. The fuel system was just redone with a new tank and filter. So I am good their. I would like to hear more on the oil treatment. I am assuming you do it right before you change the oil?

Yes, I would replace the pcv "after" the seafoam treatment through the intake. You can just run the seafoam through and wait for your normal exhaust and change the pcv out. Maybe drive the car a short distance first for a good flush.
Regarding in the oil. The can said it is okay to use in the crankcase with intent being to clean and lubricate. I added a can in and put about 100 miles on the car and then changed the oil and filter believing that any fragments will be picked up in the filter. I guess you could change the oil immediately after the treatment, which may be a good idea in case you run any heavy sludge or fragments through that may clog up your oil pump strainer for example.
I waited for about 100 miles and took my chances. I guess the point is that you need to run the car long enough to get a good circulation of the sea foam so it can do its job in cleaning.
As far as in the fuel. The thought here is to get through not only the tank and fuel pump and lines but to find its way out through the injectors as well.

[KATHRED]

Simple oversight maybe, but it got me years ago---loose alternator belt?? I had driven a 350 V-8 chevy all day and would find the battery weak the next morning--I even took it out on the interstate to charge up the battery figuring that would solve the problem. Then one morning or so later it was dead. I went to the dealership to be kindly shown by a mechanic that the belt was loose. No charge--this about the only thing I ever got free at a dealership except coffee. The TC has a "conventional" set up for the alternator belt--you loosen the bolt on the adjusting rack and using a lever, tighten the belt. Have you checked for play in that belt?

[redline]

Simple oversight maybe, but it got me years ago---loose alternator belt?? I had driven a 350 V-8 chevy all day and would find the battery weak the next morning--I even took it out on the interstate to charge up the battery figuring that would solve the problem. Then one morning or so later it was dead. I went to the dealership to be kindly shown by a mechanic that the belt was loose. No charge--this about the only thing I ever got free at a dealership except coffee. The TC has a "conventional" set up for the alternator belt--you loosen the bolt on the adjusting rack and using a lever, tighten the belt. Have you checked for play in that belt?


Good idea I will check it. I just jumped it earlier and it charged itself. I checked for lights in the trunk and glove box and found nothing on. We will see what happens tomorrow morning. Thank you again!

By the way I wished my 88 looked like yours! very nice

[Elemino]

this about the only thing I ever got free at a dealership except coffee.The Lincoln dealership I go to gives free cappucino and hot chocolate from some maker they got. I don't drink coffee, but the hot chocolate is good. :D

BTW, redline if you want to check if the alt is charging you can do that without even pulling out your meter. In a dark place run the car with your headlights on. Shut the engine off and if the lights dim then your alt is at least doing its job while the car is running.

[87 town]

The Lincoln dealership I go to gives free cappucino and hot chocolate from some maker they got. I don't drink coffee, but the hot chocolate is good. :D

BTW, redline if you want to check if the alt is charging you can do that without even pulling out your meter. In a dark place run the car with your headlights on. Shut the engine off and if the lights dim then your alt is at least doing its job while the car is running.


Elemino,
I just had to write that tip down. never thought of that all my life. what a great way to get at least an initial idea if alt is working. turn it off with car running with lights on, if they dim, alt is working while car running. really..what a simple concept!

[Fordace]

redline, if you're good with a fluke meter, you should be able to use the 10 amp draw setting
(there's usually a separate hole for the positive lead to go into labeled 10A)

disconnect one battery terminal, put one lead on the battery, the other on the cable and your draw will show on the meter. pull fuses one by one until the draw drops down to under 1/2 amp......you have found your problem....

[TheAudioGuru]

AS I have allready been quoted, there is no check engine light on an 88.

Regards

Dereck


I have one on my 89!!!! Wo0t ;)

[redline]

redline, if you're good with a fluke meter, you should be able to use the 10 amp draw setting
(there's usually a separate hole for the positive lead to go into labeled 10A)

disconnect one battery terminal, put one lead on the battery, the other on the cable and your draw will show on the meter. pull fuses one by one until the draw drops down to under 1/2 amp......you have found your problem....

Allright, sounds easy enough. It held a charge overnight, But it has been mysteriously warm here the past 2 days.

[Fordace]

if you cant find it, unplug the alternator connectors, if it drops down, it's the alternator.......

[Fordace]

Hey, remember, the meter is only good for 10 amps, so make sure you have everything OFF, unplug the hood light bulb, close the trunk etc. Make sure the Key is OFF. You do not want any false readings (draws). Keep all doors shut if possible, they will also create a false draw from a light being on inside with door open. Radio memory should be about .35 of an amp. Most draws under .60 amps are considered normal, but this will vary from model to model. Any draw over 1.00 amp is NO GOOD.

[joedogg]

redline, if you're good with a fluke meter, you should be able to use the 10 amp draw setting
(there's usually a separate hole for the positive lead to go into labeled 10A)

disconnect one battery terminal, put one lead on the battery, the other on the cable and your draw will show on the meter. pull fuses one by one until the draw drops down to under 1/2 amp......you have found your problem....
DUDE! What a good idea! By Fluke meter you mean multimeter?

[redline]

DUDE! What a good idea! By Fluke meter you mean multimeter?

Yes Fluke is a great/well trusted company that makes meters

[Elemino]

That meter and the pull the fuse thing is the best way to test that stuff... unless you have added accessories like someone i know (me). My dad had me do the same thing when I first bought my car and the battery died on it. (before my system, alarm and other accessories were installed) But in all reality it would be my last resort because I'm lazy... I'd rather these problems present themselves to me. :D

Still... goodluck, and let us know what you find.

[redline]

That meter and the pull the fuse thing is the best way to test that stuff... unless you have added accessories like someone i know (me). My dad had me do the same thing when I first bought my car and the battery died on it. (before my system, alarm and other accessories were installed) But in all reality it would be my last resort because I'm lazy... I'd rather these problems present themselves to me. :D

Still... goodluck, and let us know what you find.

I do have a system with Xtant amps and subs. But it is done correctly and is not draining. I have a circuit breaker I turn off.

[Vitas]

Does it have a Chapman alarm system?

Here is a method of identifying shorts:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j290/NewEnglandLincolns/misc/amp_draw_wiring.jpg

Here is Nick after he used this method:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j290/NewEnglandLincolns/misc/one_happy_Nick.jpg

Perhaps someone can explain this, or I will call Charlie Monday and have him give me all the details. If there are no shorts the light bulb will be dead; otherwise if the light bulb is lit pull fuses until it goes out to identify the circuit.

I believe the test light bulb has to be heavy duty so as to prevent it from frying.

[Elemino]

Actually if the bulb is 12V, it won't blow or fry or explode on you. :D
(WARNING: May get hot though!!!)

The reason it works is because you have taken a circuit and put the bulb in series with it. When the device [draining current] starts to draw its current from the battery the light bulb (being in series) has that current flow through it. As more current is drawn by the device the light bulb gets brighter, if the device stops drawing current the light turns off. The problem here is if you have one too small it will look very bright with the smallest draws (like maybe the radio), if it's too big you could draw all kinds of current with the bulb barely turning on.

[Elemino]

To elborate a little more here is a pic. (I would have used a resistor and the schematic but it might have just caused more confusion.) The Wire represents an extreme short or power draw. The second part is taking that wire and putting a lightbulb in series to see if there is an actual power draw. When the bulb lights up that tells you yes indeed there is.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3672/shortpy5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Scruffybeast]

Years ago when I worked for Chevrolet, we had some problems with slipping alternator belts. I used to check by seeing if I could grasp the fan on the front of the alternator and slip the pulley around. If it is possible to move (rotate) the pulley by hand at all, the belt is too loose. Scruffybeast.

[Hensley]

I had an '87 TC with the same type of battery drain. Turned out to be the rear window defogger switch. Thing was stuck in the ON position even with the key out of the ignition (!). After 3 days of getting jumps, I noticed the light on the switch stuck on in the dark.

[rainhopper]

I had this problem on my 87 TC. I pulled my hair out trying to figure out why new batterys were dying. nothing was on, but there was a solid drain then I unplugged the Alternator. no drain.

I replaced the alternator with a NOS alt I picked up online. was I think 84$. The drain was gone.

its worth a check. your alt will charge perfectly but at night it will drain the battery. its easy to check, if you have a volt meter use it to bridge the gap on your pos terminal after removing the cable, then check for a drain (someone will have to explain the voltmeter setting. a .12 flow through your bridge is the high side of normal. the alt was causing a .34 drain.

*think you use the 20a setting for this*

[Elemino]

I had this problem on my 87 TC. I pulled my hair out trying to figure out why new batterys were dying. nothing was on, but there was a solid drain then I unplugged the Alternator. no drain.Sounds oddly like what I recommended......A good way to really test this theory is to unplug the harness from the alt at night and if the battery is still fully charged, you know it's alt related.