HELP!! Antifreeze Coming Out Of Exhaust !!

[davvet2]

I have an '87 TC with a 5.0 engine.

Valve covers were leaking, so I pulled the plenum and replaced the valve cover gaskets and pcv screen. Replaced the plenum gasket and thought I hooked everything back up correctly, but now it's steaming like head gaskets (from both sides from the exhaust), missing, and will blow antifreeze out the exhaust if the motor is revved a little. A friend told me that it could be the throttle body gasket because the body is cooled by two small water lines, I replaced the TB gasket and it's still steaming. I've done something wrong -- an probably need to pull the plenum again and see what it is. Does anyone have a good diagram showing how everything should be hooked up?

Prior to me doing this it never steamed or overheated -- no smell of antifreeze either.

Thanks,

Jim

[OVERKILL]

You didn't accidentally hook one of the EGR coolant tubes up as a vacuum line did you?

[davvet2]

I don't think so. There are 2 lines going to the throttle body; I replaced the hose on both of them -- I was careful doing it. I guess the only way to be absolutely certain is to pull the plenum back off.

[87 town]

I have an '87 TC with a 5.0 engine.

Valve covers were leaking, so I pulled the plenum and replaced the valve cover gaskets and pcv screen. Replaced the plenum gasket and thought I hooked everything back up correctly, but now it's steaming like head gaskets (from both sides from the exhaust), missing, and will blow antifreeze out the exhaust if the motor is revved a little. A friend told me that it could be the throttle body gasket because the body is cooled by two small water lines, I replaced the TB gasket and it's still steaming. I've done something wrong -- an probably need to pull the plenum again and see what it is. Does anyone have a good diagram showing how everything should be hooked up?

Prior to me doing this it never steamed or overheated -- no smell of antifreeze either.

Thanks,

Jim

Wondering if you have a leaky manifold/head gasket (someone can correct me here, I forgot the specific gasket, but was mixing coolant with oil)...
Take a look under your oil cap and see if it is at all watery or moist or a whiteish color which could mean coolant mixed in oil. Also, look at, and feel, your coolant to see if oil possibly mixed in there. Also, check for the color being brownish, which could represent oil mixed in.
It may also just be, as someone said, a wrong hook up on the egr and vacume line...

[Elemino]

I have an '87 TC with a 5.0 engine.

Valve covers were leaking, so I pulled the plenum and replaced the valve cover gaskets and pcv screen. Replaced the plenum gasket and thought I hooked everything back up correctly, but now it's steaming like head gaskets (from both sides from the exhaust), missing, and will blow antifreeze out the exhaust if the motor is revved a little. A friend told me that it could be the throttle body gasket because the body is cooled by two small water lines, I replaced the TB gasket and it's still steaming. I've done something wrong -- an probably need to pull the plenum again and see what it is. Does anyone have a good diagram showing how everything should be hooked up?

Prior to me doing this it never steamed or overheated -- no smell of antifreeze either.

Thanks,

JimI know within the last week and a half we got our first freezes here in Texas. Did you have a proper anti-freeze/water mixture? If not, it could have been caused by a cracked head.

[davvet2]

I have plenty of antifreeze in the motor.

I may have crossed a line somewhere and caused this; I'm looking for a EVTM now to double check.

Thanks

[gadget73]

Unhook the two water lines to the EGR cooler and see if the water stops. It may take some time to cook out of the engine though. Pressure testing will also show where the water is going. If you pump it up, and the EGR cooler is leaking, you'll see it spraying inside the throttle body. Do this test with the engine not running, and open the throttle up. You will see if it you look inside with a flashlight. its also possible the lower intake gaskets have failed, though I doubt that. Usually they will pump coolant into the oil and bubble around the edges of the intake manifold. I'll bet its either the cooler has rotted out, or the gasket isn't sealed up properly. If its rotted out, you'll need to replace it as it will suck air through the coolant lines if you unhook them. I do not use the EGR cooler lines on my car, but the EGR spacer must not be rotted out to get away with this.

[Steve Moran]

O2 sensors are contaminated now.

[davvet2]

Thanks Gadget 73,

I have a pressure tester and will check it out soon as it warms up some. I would have never known where to look without this information.

and Thanks Steve,

I had hoped the 02 sensors would burn off the coolant and be OK, guess I'll start looking for codes.

Jim

[davvet2]

Gadget 73,

I used my Stant pressure tool, and sure enough there's coolant running into the throttle body.

I took the spacer block off and cleaned it pretty well, and there is no evidence that I can see that it's leaking -- no cracks or holes are visible. Called my friend at the Ford dealer and he says the block is no longer available, so I bought another throttle body gasket, egr gasket and metalized spacer gasket.

Please tell me in detail how to reinstall it so I won't make an error -
and keep it from leaking into the plenum. (or anything else I can do).

Thanks,

Jim

PS: I also sent this message as a PM.

[gadget73]

There really isn't much to it, but there is a different gasket for each side of that spacer plate, and if they get mixed up it will leak coolant through the bleed hole. If memory serves, the gasket with the thinner connecting pieces goes against the plenum, and the one with the wider pieces goes between the spacer and throttle body. If you look close on the spacer at the side that goes toward the throttle body, there is a raised area going from the center of the bore to the outside, and a groove is milled into it. Make sure that the gasket covers that groove, otherwise it will be exposed to the area of the EGR spacer that has coolant circulating in it. If you want to be extra sure, a small amount of RTV can be used to seal the gasket to that raised piece.

Generally speaking the EGR spacers don't fail. If there is a problem, a visual inspection will usually show it. Most of the time, the hose nipples rot off if anything is going to fail. Not surprised Ford doesn't make them anymore. They absolutely suck about making parts for older cars. 10-15 years old and usually its obsolete, and you're left with junkyard parts.

I found out that little trick with the two different gaskets when my brand new engine started pumping huge clouds of smoke out. It probably would have taken me longer to figure it out if not for the fact coolant was spraying out of the side of the throttle body. I fixed mine by disconnecting the coolant lines and forgetting about it. Mine leaked not because of improper gasket placement, but because I was using Mark VII gaskets on a bored out EGR spacer. They are different enough that it doesn't block off that coolant bleed hole. The Explorer gasket I currently use works fine though. I still don't use the cooler lines.

[Elemino]

To be honest with you, you can't confuse what side the gaskets go on. The holes line up with the patern on the spacer.

[davvet2]

Thanks.

I'll get it back together tomorrow. If it still leaks, I will plug the coolant lines and eliminate the problem.

Jim

[joedogg]

Just curious, why is it that there are coolant lines there if they are unnecessary?

[Elemino]

Just curious, why is it that there are coolant lines there if they are unnecessary?That's part of the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system. It's an emissions system that allows some of the exhaust from the car to flow back into the intake of the engine (suck, I know). From what I understand, the radiator fluid cools the exhaust gases as they enter the engine (once again). Explanation of what the EGR is here: http://autorepair.about.com/od/generalinfo/l/bldef165.htm

[davvet2]

Today I reinstalled the EGR block & throttle body, it still leaked.

Took some hose and bypassed the EGR cooler by installing a short hose between both fittings and the original lines by running one line from under the plenum to the other fitting on the back of the block.

Here's what happened:

The motor locked up. It took a 200 amp boost from my battery charger to get it where it will turn over. It doesn't want to start and if it does start won't stay running very long. It's trying to start but won't fire off now.

There's water in the oil.

I checked it 2 days ago and didn't see any, but the chocolate milk is very evident now.

I'm guessing that I need to change the oil, and replace the plugs as they are probably fouled and try again. If I still have water in the oil, then something else has happened.

Thanks,

Jim

[joedogg]

Today I reinstalled the EGR block & throttle body, it still leaked.

Took some hose and bypassed the EGR cooler by installing a short hose between both fittings and the original lines by running one line from under the plenum to the other fitting on the back of the block.

Here's what happened:

The motor locked up. It took a 200 amp boost from my battery charger to get it where it will turn over. It doesn't want to start and if it does start won't stay running very long. It's trying to start but won't fire off now.

There's water in the oil.

I checked it 2 days ago and didn't see any, but the chocolate milk is very evident now.

I'm guessing that I need to change the oil, and replace the plugs as they are probably fouled and try again. If I still have water in the oil, then something else has happened.

Thanks,

Jim
I'm in agreeance with that, change that oil out. That should get rid of the lion's share of the water in the engine. Sounds like you just need to work that out of there.

[Tman70]

My initial though is that the engine was/is hydro locked and by forcing it to turn over, you've probably bent at least 2 connecting rods. Pull ALL the plugs and get the water cleared out of the cylinders before you do anything else.

[OVERKILL]

My initial though is that the engine was/is hydro locked and by forcing it to turn over, you've probably bent at least 2 connecting rods. Pull ALL the plugs and get the water cleared out of the cylinders before you do anything else.

Agreed. Hydro-lock=potential SERIOUS damage.

[gadget73]

Change the oil then pull the plugs and crank the engine till it blows all the water out. Once the cylinders are clear, take compressed air and blow the plugs off. It should run then, assuming one of the valves didn't cave in or some other serious damage. I've un-hydro locked plenty of motors without any real damage, but I have had a few that were forced or kept running or something with water in a cylinder, and it resulted in severe massive failure of the engine. One marine engine I worked on snapped the piston rings, scored the wall up, and turned the valves inside out like an umbrella just before firing the insulator right out of the spark plug and embedding it into a fiberglass panel in the engine compartment.

[davvet2]

I hope it un-hydro locked OK.

I'll change the oil and blow off the plugs tomorrow and see what's happened.

Thanks to everyone for their help,

Jim

[davvet2]

Bad News.

Pulled the plugs, cleaned them with the plug blaster, spun the motor without the plugs in - and changed the oil.

Antifreeze is still getting into the plenum from somewhere, and the coolant lines to the EGR block on the plenum are disconnected.

The motor still won't run right, the coolant is back in the oil and I didn't accomplish anything.

I must have crossed a line under the plenum somehow -- does anyone have a diagram of where the hoses are supposed to be connected under the plenum? I bought a Ford EVTM manual off Ebay, it just isn't here yet.

Thanks.

Jim

[OVERKILL]

EDIT: Nevermind, you didn't have the lower off, did you?

OK, the coolant hoses:

1. There is one coming from the "rail" line that is steel that goes down the passenger-side of the lower intake. It comes off of that line.

2. There is one coming from the drivers-side rear corner of the intake manifold.

These lines are the same size as many of the vacuum lines, so please check to make sure you don't have one of them accidentally hooked up as one.

[87 town]

Bad News.

Pulled the plugs, cleaned them with the plug blaster, spun the motor without the plugs in - and changed the oil.

Antifreeze is still getting into the plenum from somewhere, and the coolant lines to the EGR block on the plenum are disconnected.

The motor still won't run right, the coolant is back in the oil and I didn't accomplish anything.

I must have crossed a line under the plenum somehow -- does anyone have a diagram of where the hoses are supposed to be connected under the plenum? I bought a Ford EVTM manual off Ebay, it just isn't here yet.

Thanks.

Jim

I know you are trying "everything" here and I hope something simple works out. From my personal experience in 2001, when I had this problem, where my coolant was mixing in the oil it was the "Intake Manifold Gaskets". Had em changed and problem was solved. I also had oil getting mixed in with the coolant, which should also be the same situation here if it is the gaskets. If this is happenning, the coolant should be brown and oily to some degree, depending on how much is getting in there. I remember changing the coolant only to see it turn within one or two days and continued to have that moisture from the coolant in the oil. Car ran bad also, and for my case, once I had the problem figured out knowing it was the Gaskets which took 2 different mechanics to diaganose, it became Critical to get new gaskets before I would ruin the motor. Had 170 k miles on the car at the time. Had the timing chain and plastic gear changed out to a metal gear also at the time since the mechanic was already in there.
Good luck and keep us posted.

[davvet2]

Thanks --

I am exasperated -- that's for sure.

Looking back on it, the only things I did was pull the plenum, change out the vacuum lines and reinstall it -- then pulled the throttle body and cleaned it and reinstalled --- so the problem has to be something I did wrong in that area. Tomorrow, I pull the plenum -- check out the lines, install a new plenum gasket and see what happens. (will also pull the plugs and crank the engine over to clear the cylinders and change the oil and filter again).

[gadget73]

I'll bet the line to the oil filler neck got crossed with one of the coolant lines, or the coolant fitting on the lower intake got connected as a vacuum hose. Its mostly 1/4" fuel hose, and it would be easy to switch them out, especially that coolant fitting on the lower intake which looks like it should be for a vacuum hose.

[davvet2]

You were right, Gadget 73

Pulled the plenum and found a crossed vacuum line that was hooked up to one of the EGR coolant lines; the one on the passengers side.
Plugged both EGR cooling lines at the block to eliminate that problem completely.

Pulled the plugs, cleaned them again, spun the engine to remove the coolant from the cylinders, reinstalled the plugs and plenum. Changed the oil and filter. It fired up immediately fast idled and idled down, steaming like a locomotive due to the coolant in the exhaust, etc. Let it run for half an hour at various RPM's and most of the coolant baked out -- but it's still smoking a little.

However, it's making a strange sound in the exhaust -- almost like a popping sound, or the gurgling sound of water going down the drain -
any ideas?

Thanks

[OVERKILL]

Is it smooth or missing?

[davvet2]

The engine doesn't seem to be missing -- the exhaust is "percolating".

[OVERKILL]

Take it for a drive?

[davvet2]

No, I haven't. I lost the brass throttle kickdown bushing and didn't want to smoke the transmission -- so I'll have to wait until I can get one tomorrow to drive it.

[Elemino]

Change oil, filter, and drive the car on the freeway for about ½ hour after the engine is warm and it should have all moisture out of the system... assuming nothing is clogged with junk. You may want to get some really good oil this time if you normally use the cheapy stuff.There may be rust and other contaminants in the block.

[87 town]

Change oil, filter, and drive the car on the freeway for about ½ hour after the engine is warm and it should have all moisture out of the system... assuming nothing is clogged with junk. You may want to get some really good oil this time if you normally use the cheapy stuff.There may be rust and other contaminants in the block.

I wonder if some "Seafoam" may be in order? I used it once in the crankcase on and ran it about 100 miles and then changed the oil.. I don't have any idea though if it did anything...
It is a natural oil based product. May serve to flush out the bad stuff?

[Elemino]

I doubt the seafoam could do anything. Oil and water don't really mix. But you do have a good point, he should probably drive the car at operating temp for a while before changing the oil and then after to attempt to get the most of that moisture out of it.

[gadget73]

Probably all that water cleaned the intake system out already. Doubt there would be much for the seafoam to do. Just hope the water didn't contaminate the oxygen sensors or converters. If it wasn't run for prolonged periods, its probably OK but don't be overly surprised if your cats clog up.

[davvet2]

Thanks, Guys --

Haven't had time to get the TVI bushing yet so I can't test drive it, but today I started it in the driveway and it's about quit smoking -- still making the noise in the exhaust though.

Gadget73 -- you're right about the intake being cleaned out inside, there's a trail of black carbon from the exhaust on my driveway!


Jim

[davvet2]

Took the Town Car for a test drive today, after I installed the TV bushing.

It seems to run OK, it's still baking the coolant out of the exhaust system, and the percolating sound in the exhaust is gone.

I hope I dodged a bullet.

Thanks to everyone that helped me!

Jim

[gadget73]

Glad it came out OK in the end for you.