My 98 Town Car is running bad at low rpms

[pbunyan]

it happened all of a sudden it seems like. I remember one morning I was taking off and my TC acted like it didnt wanna shift out of 2nd gear. It shifted eventually so I didnt think anything else of it. But when I drove my car again I noticed it idling rough, and when I take off it hesitates a little bit. I also noticed the check engine light come on and a little bit of smoke coming from the rear drivers side area under the hood. Not a lot of smoke just a hair, like if oil/brake fluid was getting on something that gets hot like the exhaust. But in that area I dont see anything leaking.

So I took the car to AutoZone to get the codes read. It threw a p300 and a p304. Im thinking since that means random misfire and #4 misfire, maybe this thing needs a tuneup. Im gonna go home and check the plug wire for #4 and the fuel injector harnass for #4. But one question, which cylinder is #4? I have a manual but I am not sure if they mean the same #4 as the manual. At higher RPMs this thing runs fine

Also what should I change in a normal tuneup on one of these things?


Thanks!

[Shrewsbury]

Sounds like plugs/wires. Number 4 is on the passenger side firewall. Ford numbers their cylinders on all V8 engines the same. Facing the front of the engine with the radiator in front of you and the driver’s side to your right (American right hand drive version), numbers 1 through 4 are on your left side (passenger side) starting at the front of the engine (radiator) and enumerated to the firewall. Numbers 5-8 are on the right side, numbered similarly from radiator to firewall.

[nailfoot]

The small whisps of smoke hint to me a leak of some sort. Have you checked your tranny fluid level?

[AZLincolnMercury]

Also what should I change in a normal tuneup on one of these things?

how many miles?

[pbunyan]

Havent checked the tranny fluid yet
It has 238,000 miles. I bought it at 230,000

The intake is leaking (Not a lot though. I wonder if the recall for that is over yet. It takes about a month for enough antifreeze to leak where I can notice it) but thats the only problem I can see. I havent tuned it up since I got it and I have no idea the last time it got a tune up.

I might try to do it tonight, if not tonight Ill do it in the morning and post my results.

Thanks for the prompt responses guys! I havent posted over here in a minute

[nailfoot]

Intake recall ended about 6 months ago, so no luck there. If your plastic intake is busted and leaking, I would not drive the car at all until replacement. It is eventually gonna blow out on you and you will be stranded.

[AZLincolnMercury]

Yeah, if it's leaking replace it. $200 DIY job

I will admit that I have not replaced mine yet but I only have 70k miles...
Amazing at almost a quarter million miles yours is only slightly leaking.

are the plugs and wires original? [EDIT: I mean coils ]:rolleyes:

[Shrewsbury]

Intake recall ended about 6 months ago, so no luck there. If your plastic intake is busted and leaking, I would not drive the car at all until replacement. It is eventually gonna blow out on you and you will be stranded.

March 16, 2006 was the last date for reimbursement if you paid to have the replacement done, but it had to be replaced within 7 years of the car's initial sale date.

http://www.fordmanifoldsettlement.com/

I was at the DuPont plant this summer where Zytel is manufactured. They were proud of the intakes that are currently being made from their resin for company X (I can't say which for confidential reasons). I quipped about Ford's troubles, and they were incredulous, telling me that they haven't heard any reports of problems with plastic intakes. I just shook my head and grinned and said, "Yeah, right. Sure you haven't."

[Dereck]

I quipped about Ford's troubles, and they were incredulous, telling me that they haven't heard any reports of problems with plastic intakes. I just shook my head and grinned and said, "Yeah, right. Sure you haven't."

Hi Shrewsbury

Whenever we call a dealer for a commonly failing part and they havn't got it in stock and we say "What, you havn't got one these they are always breaking", there inveriably say "We have never stocked/sold one of those", all manufacturers and thier agents are in denial. :rolleyes:

Regards

Dereck

[v8_dave]

To me I say a normal tuneup is 8 AGSF32PP plugs and 8 coils with boots. But because the coils can be expensive if you dont shop around, I say do the plugs first and check all the boots for tears while you have them out.


To help us pinpoint this better;

How is your gas milage now? (do an instant mpg highway run)
Is the car any louder?
Is exhaust coming out evenly out of both tailpipes? (if applicable)
Changed your fuel filter and air filter recently?

[AZLincolnMercury]

To me I say a normal tuneup is 8 AGSF32PP plugs and 8 coils with boots. But because the coils can be expensive if you dont shop around, I say do the plugs first and check all the boots for tears while you have them out.


To help us pinpoint this better;

How is your gas milage now? (do an instant mpg highway run)
Is the car any louder?
Is exhaust coming out evenly out of both tailpipes? (if applicable)
Changed your fuel filter and air filter recently?


yep, great tips…always good to start with the cheap stuff. ;)

[sheebeehuh]

IIRC, your car is too old to qualify for the intake lawsuit settllemnt (more than 7 years old). There's good info on the intake settlement and DIY instructions here...

http://www.autoclinix.com/Manifold.htm

If it's leaking you may be getting coolant into the spark plug wells causing a misfire. When mine blew I had coolant EVERYWHERE.

[pbunyan]

All,
I think I found the culprit. Remember I said I saw some smoke coming from the rear drivers side area of the engine compartment? Well I took this pic this morning. Lets see who can guess what that is. Thats after about 8 minutes of driving including going up a large hill (Superman Hill) lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/shizzle1984/catalyic_20convertor.jpg

[Tman70]

Not real funny seeing the catalytic converter struggling to get rid of excessive gas. You're running real rich on that side for some reason. you said there was a random misfire on #4. Replace the plug, wire and injector if necessary before you have a meltdown. I'm surprised your O2 sensor isn't reading it as being too rich.

[pbunyan]

Not real funny seeing the catalytic converter struggling to get rid of excessive gas. You're running real rich on that side for some reason. you said there was a random misfire on #4. Replace the plug, wire and injector if necessary before you have a meltdown. I'm surprised your O2 sensor isn't reading it as being too rich.

Do you think it might be clogged up? Or something like that? I havent crawled up under there yet, probably wont until Saturday, its parked for now.

[pbunyan]

Ok pulled #4 COP today. No ripped boot, etc but there was enough crud there around it on the intake to make me think its been awhile since the plugs were changed. I would have took the plug out but I couldnt figure out what size socket it used. Anyone have any idea?

[pbunyan]

I also looked at the rest of the COPs and the wiring harness and everything else looked good

[pbunyan]

OK I see in one thread its a 5/8". I could have SWORE thats what I threw on there. Oh well, back at it in the morning...considering I dont party too hard tonight.

Happy New Years to everyone :-)

[v8_dave]

OK I see in one thread its a 5/8". I could have SWORE thats what I threw on there. Oh well, back at it in the morning...considering I dont party too hard tonight.

Happy New Years to everyone :-)

Nope, party hard as long as you remember to blow out the plug wells GOOD with lots of compressed air. Use a light to make sure you got all the sand out and go around the banks several times to blow out every last bit. :D

[Shrewsbury]

I second Dave's advice. Do your best to not let any crud fall in on top of the pistons. A little bit of sand can score cylinder walls up really bad before it is either shoved out the exhaust or into the crankcase.

[Dereck]

Hi Pbunyan

Your picture shows the left catalyst overheating but #4 cylinder is on the right side of the car, I am wondering if you should be looking for a problem on the left cylinder bank as well.

Regards

Dereck

[pbunyan]

Hi Pbunyan

Your picture shows the left catalyst overheating but #4 cylinder is on the right side of the car, I am wondering if you should be looking for a problem on the left cylinder bank as well.

Regards

Dereck

Dereck..I wasnt gonna say anything but I was thinking the same thing. Are there 2 catalysts on this car? 1 for each bank? I was gonna check/change all the plugs anyways, I need to buy me a good spark plug socket too, wonder whats open today...

[Shrewsbury]

Dereck..I wasnt gonna say anything but I was thinking the same thing. Are there 2 catalysts on this car? 1 for each bank? I was gonna check/change all the plugs anyways, I need to buy me a good spark plug socket too, wonder whats open today...

Yes - each side has its own catalyst. The plugs use a 5/8" deep well socket (or plug socket with the rubber/foam insert). Get the cheap copper spark plugs and gap to the upper limit for best fuel economy. What's open today? Wal-Mart, man! They only close on Christmas. They should have the plugs and a socket. I think most of the major auto parts chains are also open today. Just be sure to blow or vacuum the plug wells out good, and I'd also recommend using some boot grease for easier removal next time.

[lenny lincoln]

How much antifreeze is the car burning/leaking? Burning antifreeze will screw up the air flow mixture and glow the cats and burn the plugs. He just may need a tune up , one cylinder maybe fouled by antifreeze and dumping to much gas into the exhaust. THe O2's should of been throwning codes.

[pbunyan]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/shizzle1984/1167803582.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/shizzle1984/1167803333.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/shizzle1984/1167803222.jpg

All here are some pics of the #4 COP. After doing some searches, I am thinking that a lot of antifreeze hit this and maybe the other COPs at one time or another. I have had the car since April of 06 and havent touched it since I bought it. I plan on replacing all the plugs and the COPs shortly.

[pbunyan]

All,
Will these fit my car?

http://i14.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/81/0e/49c2_1.JPG

[98TC-Cartier]

Does your car have a replacement intake manifold? The manifold side of the thermostat housing will be aluminum if it has been replaced. Original was all black nylon, the replacments have an alminum front crossover pipe and thermostat well.

[v8_dave]

All,
Will these fit my car?

http://i14.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/81/0e/49c2_1.JPG

I cant cant make out the part number there, but basically all 5.4/4.6 SOHC COPS's will work even if it is from a truck. DG508 is the model number of them. I scored a new Motorcraft set on ebay for $100 shipped, you can find the knockoff ones for that price too which are probably satisfactory, better than used maybe, but used are much cheaper.

[pbunyan]

All,
Pulled #3 and #4 COP. The resistance numbers on #4 were 8.1 and .7 For #3 they were 8.0 and .6 The springs on both COPs looked slightly rusted and looked wet...or either they had some of that dielectric grease on em. I got off the phone with the guy at Herkofilters. He talking bout he outta stock today but hes expecting a shipment this Thursday or next Tuesday.

Im still searching though dangit. Anyone know if that pic I posted earlier will fit my car?

[v8_dave]

All,
Pulled #3 and #4 COP. The resistance numbers on #4 were 8.1 and .7 For #3 they were 8.0 and .6 The springs on both COPs looked slightly rusted and looked wet...or either they had some of that dielectric grease on em. I got off the phone with the guy at Herkofilters. He talking bout he outta stock today but hes expecting a shipment this Thursday or next Tuesday.

Im still searching though dangit. Anyone know if that pic I posted earlier will fit my car?

Probably did ya read my post? Anyway, buy these before I do, its $130 shipped for new Motorcraft ones. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-5-4-4-6-F-150-F150-F-250-F250-Coil-OEM-Mustang_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33689QQihZ015QQ itemZ250069358510QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I forget if the first letters mean anything, I thought it was just the 12A366-AA that meant anything anyway.

Look at all the models these COP's fit for 98 TC: http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductGuide.aspx?mfrcode=NIE&mfrpartnumber=FF198

[pbunyan]

Probably did ya read my post? Anyway, buy these before I do, its $130 shipped for new Motorcraft ones. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-5-4-4-6-F-150-F150-F-250-F250-Coil-OEM-Mustang_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33689QQihZ015QQ itemZ250069358510QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I forget if the first letters mean anything, I thought it was just the 12A366-AA that meant anything anyway.

Look at all the models these COP's fit for 98 TC: http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductGuide.aspx?mfrcode=NIE&mfrpartnumber=FF198

Thanks! I just picked those up. Hopefully everything will work out. Ill post how it goes.

[v8_dave]

Thanks! I just picked those up. Hopefully everything will work out. Ill post how it goes.

Good, if glad you got them, if you have second thoughts, I will gladly pay $130 if I don't win another set. I don't have another car that needs them, but I may probably soon. :)

Hopefully its these and not a clogged cat.

[pbunyan]

I hope the seller overnights these things. I need them like YESTERDAY. My mom has been without her car for a week.

[pbunyan]

And yes I hope the cat isnt clogged up. From what I can tell sometimes it messes up the cat and sometimes it doesnt. My cousin said in his Ford Fiesta (Dont laugh :-)) same thing happened. But he said his catalytic converter got so hot he could feel it through the floor. And once he replaced the plugs everything was fine, he didnt have to replace it.

Ill see. Hopefully these things will come in before the weekend so I can replace them and be good for next week. I have to ride down to Richmond to get my Birth Certificate on Monday.

[lenny lincoln]

I thought you said something about moisture around one of the boots. If its leaking antifreeze You need to find out where and why otherwise its not going to run very far once you put in new cops

[pbunyan]

I thought you said something about moisture around one of the boots. If its leaking antifreeze You need to find out where and why otherwise its not going to run very far once you put in new cops

I know. I just changed the intake gasket on my 73 Continental (460) but since this is my most reliable car I think Im gonna take this one to the shop. Until then though I think I may be able to run a bead of JB Weld to direct the water from the leaking area of my intake so it doesnt get anywhere it shouldnt.

[pbunyan]

All,
I replaced the COPs with the ones from that eBay auction. The car runs much better. I went to AutoZone, cleared the codes and the check engine light hasnt came back on yet. The hardest part about replacing the plugs was getting the spark plug socket to come off the socket once you put the new plugs on there. What I did was tape the socket to a unvirsal joint then to an extension. Heres some pics:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/shizzle1984/1168704508.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/shizzle1984/1168705744.jpg
Heres what my old plugs looked like The first 4 are cylinders 1-4 and the 2nd 4 are 5-8 (Left to right)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/shizzle1984/1168719146.jpg
This oily socket here shows how much oil was in the #8 spark plug hole, this is on the drivers side which had the glowing catalyst
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/shizzle1984/1168719173.jpg
Heres that plug
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/shizzle1984/1168719249.jpg

[pbunyan]

The plugs I used were Autolite AP2545

[pbunyan]

All,
Once I replaced those COPS the car ran much better for a while. About a month ago the computer threw 2 more codes. One was cylinder 2 misfire, and the other one was clogged catalyst. I went ahead and replaced the drivers side catalyst (The one that was glowing red in this pic. After I replaced the COPs it didnt glow red anymore) which took care of that code.

I then reset the codes and after about a day it threw cylinder 2 misfire again. This time I switched the #1 and #2 COPs (I think. Anyone have a link to the firing order for a 98 TC?) and reset the codes. This time after a few minutes it threw #2 misfire again.

Any other hints?

[v8_dave]

Damn, weird how much oil was on that plug. :confused:

Must be an injector, mechanical engine issue, fouled plug, or an injector (or COP) wiring harness by your diagnosis.

[pbunyan]

V8Dave,
Thanks for the reply. Im thinking about taking it to the local Lincoln dealer and having them run a diagnostic on it. I guess I could look at my service cd and figure out how to check the injectors. Not sure if Ill do that or take it to the dealer. I tend to get lazy sometimes *doh* lol

bunyan

p.s. I made double sure to clean out the plug wells before removng all the plugs. I think that oil came from a valve cover leak. Im just hoping its not anything mechanical. I would be so through if it was