Brake Caliper issue

[SuperIce]

I have really benifited from the online forums and info I get online, I saved a *hit load of money when someone here pointed me to a Crankshaft sensor that 3 mechanics couldn't run down as the issue to why my car wouldn't start along with many other easy fixes. So now I'm back again and on to my problem....


I read online along with the instructions just how easy it is to change rotors and pads on my 96 LSC. I have had a warped rotor for a while now, I turned it once and it stoped the vibration in my steering wheel and front end but over 9 months it came bcak and the rotor was re-warped. So I figured I'd put on new rotors and pads myself for aound $120(Front end only). The passenger side rotor is the warped one, and after all the safety preperation I get to working on the bolts to lossen the main claliper(not what is connected to the car) the part with the piston. Well the second bolt to the rear of the car or the lower bolt just won't come undone. The first one did but this one is like locked-welded at this point in my attempt it is already striped completly(thats what pisses me off - it should have been a way hared bolt - it was actually kinda soft and stiped with even medium preasure) and way once it striped and there was no going back I even go after it with a pipe wrench and got a very good grip - no dice in the end it just chewed it up more.

Is there any techniquie thatI can still try? I'm begining to think maybe my caliper is locked, but my brakeing is good other than the waped vibration. I just can't figure out why that bolt was frozen, I've banged it with a hammer(not as hard as I could but 75% as hard as I could). It looks to e like even if I took it to a dealer they'd just tell me they cant get it off and the only thing is to buy a new caliper set and just take the old one off.

I was wondering after looking at it, If I unbolt the WHOLE caliper set from the frame do I need to undo the smaller braket to get the brake shoes out? It looks like the whole caliper and rotor would just com off with 2 bolts then I could remove the rotor then the pads could come down through the rotor opening then I'd compress the piston far enough to get the 2 new pads back up and in and then the new rotor back in after that and up onto the wheel. So I guess I'm asking can I get new pads and rotors on with taking the caliper and caliper braket apart, just pulling the whole thing off the car as one unit so I dont need to get those 2 bolts undone. At this point I have no idea how to get the smaller bolt off unless I go back a third time with no remorse and bigger pipe whrench and see if I get lucky striping to the core(it already is round but I can maybe vicegrip it with a large vice gripe and just see but my pipe wrench had one hell of a grip and it just striped.

Can I get the new pads and rotors on with out removeing that bolt? And any suggestions on how to lossen it, I've oiled it and beat it, and vice it and its striped. Thanks David

[UDL]

IF the head is stripped, you may be SOL as far as an easy way to get it off. At this point you many have to resort to drilling the bolt out from the reverse side. Sometimes drilling a hole relieves enough pressure that you may be able to use a BIG vise grip and take it out.

Start with a small hole and work up to about 50% of the bolt's diameter being VERY careful to center the drill and not cut into the threaded part of the spindle.

Worse case scenario, you need to remove the bracket from the spindle and take the whole thing somewhere to have a pro take it out.

What kind of socket were you using that stripped the head? For real tight bolts it is better to use a 6 point socket or a 6 point box wrench thant a 12 point one. And a tight one at that, not a "chinese" one...:D

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

[luxuryrules]

Possibility as well of trying heat?

[SuperIce]

the head of the bolt IS striped(very). I did use a 12 point because(the intructions said 14mm when if fact itwas 12mm, but) the first one had no real problem - it was tight as hell but then it erked and released. I don't think I have the skill to drill it, I just thought since it is striped I'd try a really big vice and if I got it out maybe I could find a replacement bolt. Right now there is 1/4 inch of stripped bolt, if I can vice it hard enough to not strip it further I'm hoping I get lucky, but to tell you the truth my pipe wrench dug in very well and after my car moving pulls it just stripped it further. does anyone think liquid wrench may help I just used a Pro-Long super luber from a can, and should I bang it harder on the head hopeing to free it.

I guess your saying that I can't do the pads and rotor with out removing the piston from the holding braket(sorry I don't know my terms better), because I can get the whole brake set out I just can't get it into 2 pieces. If I pull the whole thing out then the rotor will drop out and I thought I could get the brake pads out also.

[UDL]

If it's stripped that bad, good luck getting it out. Pliers of all kinds are excellent at rounding bolt heads.

Lesson: Always test the socket for a tight fit before turning.

Liquid Wrench has saved my bacon a time or two. Got to let it soak at least overnight and apply often.

Once you get new bolts, get a torque wrench and set them to fatory specs. Probably got too tight the last time it got worked on.

Yeah, you need to remove the caliper all the way in order to change the pads or remove the rotor.

[SuperIce]

Ok I'll keep working on it, but no has answered the question of if I pull the caliper out as a whole can I still get the gob done with out removing the holding braket from the piston part, it looks like once the rotor is pulled out of the caliper I could work the bake shoes out indiviualy and the back up in individualy and follow that with working the rotor back up and in and puting tho whole thing back on as one? I can't give up its alread stripped I might as well push the envelope at this point.

[UDL]

Ok I'll keep working on it, but no has answered the question of if I pull the caliper out as a whole can I still get the gob done with out removing the holding braket from the piston part, it looks like once the rotor is pulled out of the caliper I could work the bake shoes out indiviualy and the back up in individualy and follow that with working the rotor back up and in and puting tho whole thing back on as one? I can't give up its alread stripped I might as well push the envelope at this point.

Once the caliper is free of the car, the pads come out by themselves.
Loosen the bleed screw and push the pistons in, tighten the bleed screw, install new pads and re-asemble. You do NOT disassemble the calipers themselves.

[SuperIce]

The instructions that I got showed 2 brakets/peices. One is the piston portion of the caliper and the other is what I thought held the brake pads in place(its the one I can't get off - the one with the smaller screws - it the caliper to caliper part.) and it also is the one bolted to the car - the small thin wrap around. The other 2 screws are what hold the whole caliper to the car if I losen those and remove the caliper as a whole along with the rotor, then once free of the hub the rotor should slide out, that in turn opens a space for the brake pads to slide out through where the rotor was and then I could slide the new pads up and in once I'd used the C-Clamp to compress the pistion back. That is my question? Can pads and rotor be put on with out braking down the caliper into 2 parts?

In the below link: In picture 4 it shows the piston potion being seperated from the holding braket that attaces to the car, the small hole you see in the piston portion of pic 4 is what I have stripped(that bolt on the back side). But can I take it off like in picture 6 just those 2 bolts and remove the caliper as a whole and once the rotor slides out then the pads will be lose, thats what I don't know because I've never done it. The instructions I have show that you take it apart in order like in picture 4 and 5 and 6, instead of going strait to picture 6 and removing the 2 big bolt that hold it to the car? Hope I make since.


http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00025.html

also I was just looking at my new pads and there is a set of shims in it, what are those?, I thought the pads just went into place? do you always use the shim?


I guess the question is can the brake pads slide down through where the rotor would be removed, or do they HAVE to slide upward away from the caliper braket(Meaning you do have to remove the piston portion from the braket portion to get the pads out).

[JP]

Oh, I get it now. You were trying to remove the BRACKET when all you needed to remove was the CALIPER(the part with the piston).

You do not need to remove the bracket - only the caliper.

[SuperIce]

Thats just it I can't remove the Caliper(the piston part) fom the baket and actually to get the Rotor off you do need the braket to come off to allow the rotor to slide of the hub. So what Im asking is if I remove the braket from the car(2 big bolts) with the Caliper still in the braket I can then slide the rotor out and at that point can I get the pads out down through the rotor opening or do I have to remove the caliper from the braket because the pads can only go out one way which is upward? thats what I don't know in other work can I bypass the stripped bolt and still get the job done with out seperating the caliper from the braket?

[asaley]

you can replace the pads by removing the whole assembly like you were saying.

If you have it off it may be easier to put it in a vise and work on the bolt. But you can leave it as is and reinstall the bolts and leave it up to the next owner to fix. (I hope its not me):( :)

[SuperIce]

Well I got it all done. After trying a third time to get the bolt out I got to looking and understanding how it works. I had one of the slider pins that would come out and I realized that if I got that one out that the Caliper would rotate on the other bolt(the stuck one). Once rotated passed the brake shoes I could slide the whole caliper out with the slider pin still stuck in the caliper - in other words I can get them into two sperate peices(the Caliper and the Caliper Braket) by only losening 3 bolts instead of 4. Anyway I cleaned out the slider pin channels and really greased them back down but that stuck pin may have not been my only issuse. According to my brake pad wear(from a chart) it being worn unevenly top to bottom and uneven front to back it said I have won out Caliper bushings and/or worn out Caliper hardware. So the question is was it that stuck pin(which didn't look damaged)?, or is it my piston bushings. I can put a new caliper on for $30 so I'm thinking about that just to be sure or I can wait and if I find it re-warping my new rotor they will turn it for free in the first year and I can put the caliper on at that time but by then I'd have to get a new set of pads also($25-$35 additonal from if I do it now). It's all new now except the caliper that I've cleaned and re-greased But I now have learned enough that I know I can put on new brakes, rotors and calipers should I ever need to. I'm leaning toward doing that caliper just to have it forever gone, my car has vibrated like made 2 out of the last 3 years and it sure feels good to brake like velvet. I have new air springs/bags all the way around and new shocks in the back, New air pump new upper A arms, with the caliper being done I should be good for 25,000-50,000 more miles.

[UDL]

Uhmm.... Maybe, just maybe that "stuck" bolt was crossthreaded in place and never tightened to the right depth, which may have made the caliper work 'sideways'. The reason you can't get it out is that it's stuck for good.

If the pads wore like that AND you warped a rotor, spend the bucks and replace the caliper. Better yet, replace both at the same time.

When it comes to brakes, that's not one place to get cheap about.

The "giddyup!" part is optional. The "WHOA!!" is mandatory. :D

[SuperIce]

I can tell by looking at it that it looks seated correctly...the lip of the bolt is flat against the caliper. once I regreased the sliding pins I could feel they were sliding and it did slide out perfectly once I rotated past the brake shoes it wasn't like I had to work it out. But I agree since I realize now that bleeding the air out isn't that though I think I will replace the caliper just to be possitive I won't have to deal with it, heck buying new slider bolts is $6 and those come with a new caliper so in the end I'll get the caliper for about $21 since I was going to replace the bolts any how and now I'll just return them.

PS: It wasn't real easy geting the new rotors on the car in a level manner, what I did was get them on as best I could with a little hammer taping on the center part then I put my mags on and tightend to kinda level the vertically then I took the mag back off and rotated it and put it back on again I take it its kinda a self level/centering.

Also I got to looking at my pads and they really don't look that bad they are worn irregular front to back but maybe 10-15% difference in height of the wear not at all as bad as I would have thought considering the rattle that was going on and for how long I let it go.

As far as bleeding once I have the new caliper on, I just open the bleeder valve and bleed into a jar with brake fluid and have someone pump the brakes untill I don't see any air bubbles correct? Once I acheave that it's tighten the valve and put on the mag, from what I now know I'll have the new caliper on in 15 minutes and the whole job done in under 30.

[UDL]

I believe there's a bleeding procedure somewhere in the archives here. You need to have the key on for the ABS to bleed properly.

Whenever I replace pads or rotors, as soon as I put the rotor on I put some plain FORD lugnuts and tighten them to about 20 FtLbs to seat the rotor and keep it in place while I get the caliper sorted out. I remove them just prior to putting the wheel on.