IMPORTANT: 92-97 Town Car Recall

[lincoln2u]

Has anyone else seen this? Plan to take my 96 TC in to be checked on Monday.


"Ford said the recall covered more than a dozen vehicle models built from 1992-2007. The company said it was responding to concerns from owners about the safety of their cars and questions about the speed control deactivation switch in the vehicles that is powered at all times.

The Dearborn, Michigan-based automaker previously had recalled nearly 6 million vehicles beginning in January 2005 because of engine fires linked to the cruise control systems in trucks, SUVs and vans.

"Customers remain concerned about the long-term durability of the speed control system and about the safety of their vehicles," said Ford spokesman Dan Jarvis.

He said the automaker had received "a few reports of fires" in Ford Crown Victoria passenger cars prior to the recall. He did not have a precise number.

The recall involves the following vehicles: 1998-2002 Ford Ranger, 1992-1997 Lincoln Town Car, 1992-1997 Ford Crown Victoria, 1992-1997 Mercury Grand Marquis, 1993-1998 Lincoln Mark VIII, 1993-1995 Taurus SHO, 1999-2001 Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer.

Also covered are the 2001-2002 Ford Explorer Sport, 2001-2002 Ford Explorer Sport Trac, 1992-1993 E150-350 vans, 1997-2002 E150-350 vans, 1993 Ford F-Series pickups, 1993 Ford Bronco, 1994 Mercury Capri, 2003-2004 Ford F-150 Lightning, and 1995-2002 Ford F53 motor homes.

An additional 177,000 vehicles in Canada, Mexico and Europe are covered by the recall.

Dealers will install a fused wiring harness into the speed control electrical system or replace the deactivation switch it its found to be leaking"

[Creo]

will u have to pay for it?

[JeepOwner]

this was posted in the lounge a couple of days ago.

and no, its a recall, so no $$ out of our pockets.

[ekooke]

From Yahoo News on 8-03-07: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070803/ford_recall.html?.v=1

[Dereck]

An additional 177,000 vehicles in Canada, Mexico and Europe are covered by the recall.



Hi

I bet my Town Car isn't covered as one of the 177,000 vehicles in Canada, Mexico and Europe :(

Regards

Dereck

[Steven]

Where's it located?

Is this the one on the side of the Master cylinder? #F2AC-9F924-AA in my case?

Mine appears to be threaded into the Master cyl. and the picture of the new one (from Dave, in Dereck's Sticky) has no threads on that end :confused:

The quote from that Yahoo news article says:
Dealers will install a fused wiring harness into the speed control electrical system or replace the deactivation switch if its found to be leaking.

I suppose that means they'll keep the switch (from the kit), and just install the adapter harness when there's no apparent leak?

Mine's not leaking, I pulled the connector and looked inside too, IF I'm looking at the correct switch:

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/8387/dsc00285rg1.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1462/dsc00288hq9.th.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00288hq9.jpg) http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9374/dsc00292ba6.th.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00292ba6.jpg) http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3425/dsc00291js3.th.jpg (http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00291js3.jpg) http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5583/dsc00287ni1.th.jpg (http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00287ni1.jpg) http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3493/dsc00286rg3.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00286rg3.jpg)

[white lincoln]

Your car is TOO clean. I think you should let me drive it for a while... :eek:

Looks (and I say 'looks') like you could use a little brake fluid. :)

As you can see, mine is normal looking...:encore:

http://planet.cnm.edu/bpearce/1995Lincoln/Ignition/engine%20rt%20finished.jpg

:p

[Steven]

Yep, it actually needs be flushed about now.. but first I need to know where I stand with that switch, is the one I have pictured the same one that burns? The end that goes into the master cyl. dosn't appear to be the same connection type as Daves photo.

And yes, it does need some more road time.. It only gets out on weekends and road-trips.

EDIT: OMG What an idiot I am, that's a red plastic shipping cap (thread protector) in Daves photo, right !!!

Here's Daves photo:

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/4089/p5240005smalllc3.jpg

[v8_dave]

Lol! Sorry, should have taken that off for the picture. :)

[osman1989]

phow do you know if your car has the recall where do i check?? ford with my vin?

[laborn]

phow do you know if your car has the recall where do i check?? ford with my vin?
I used my Vin, and it was recalled, Wife headed there now to have it changed.

[laborn]

Wife went to Ford Dealership to have recall fixed, and they said the part would not be in until October. Is the part on here the right one for my car, and will Ford reinburst me on it? Should I disconnect it until I get it in?

[skinhead]

Got my part installed today, took 20 minutes, and the dealer was well aware of everything and knew exactly what I was talking about. I asked them if they had the parts, and the manager said "Yep, we have everything in stock".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/SkarHead/Picture008.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/SkarHead/Picture009.jpg

It seems if there is no contamination, they just install the fused harness, but whatever, Im relieved knowing that my TC won't burst into flames. :)

[v8_dave]

Great job Skinhead, but everyone should drop a few drops onto the switch so that they will replace the unit IMO; don't let Ford take any more shortcuts with you.

[Steven]

ABSOLUTELY !!
If the switch is going to fail 'later' anyway.. I want mine now. I like your thinking :)

I looked at the wife's 2004 truck, hers is the upgraded unit like the photo here.

[Kielbasa]

As of today, has anyone received a recall notice yet?

[skinhead]

Nope, but the dealer did ask me if I received a notice, and I didn't so I said no, and that was that, he didn't fuss over it or anything, so I guess they are sending them out???

[no0c]

Fill me in guys.

I do not spot a switch on my early production 92. Is that because it is equipped with the AOD xmission rather than the AODE. I'm guessing that only the AODE equipped vehicles have that pressure deactivation switch.

Is that a correct assumption ?

Thanks in advance.

Tim

[laborn]

Nope, but the dealer did ask me if I received a notice, and I didn't so I said no, and that was that, he didn't fuss over it or anything, so I guess they are sending them out???

SAME HERE!

[Kielbasa]

Hey Whitey, glad to see you're still around.

My switch is not where Stevens is. Mine is down below and facing downwards. Is yours the same as mine? Check it out.

CLEAN THAT ENGINE WILL YOU? ;)




Your car is TOO clean. I think you should let me drive it for a while... :eek:

Looks (and I say 'looks') like you could use a little brake fluid. :)

As you can see, mine is normal looking...:encore:

http://planet.cnm.edu/bpearce/1995Lincoln/Ignition/engine%20rt%20finished.jpg

:p

[Dereck]

Fill me in guys.

I do not spot a switch on my early production 92. Is that because it is equipped with the AOD xmission rather than the AODE. I'm guessing that only the AODE equipped vehicles have that pressure deactivation switch.

Is that a correct assumption ?

Thanks in advance.

Tim

Hi No0C

That is correct, speed control is de-activated by dumping the vacuum on early 92 models.

The switch that catches fire is actually the secondry (or safety :rolleyes:) method of speed control de-activation the primary one is from the brake light circuit.

Regards

Dereck

[ChilliToday]

Lincoln2u, I had my speed control replaced about 18 months ago. It happened when I had my intake manifold replace. Then after the intake manifold was replaced I noticed my cruise control was not working. I complained to the dealer and he fixed it for a cheaper price, but I was still out for a couple of hundred dollars. I still will have to take it to have it either checked or replaced. I will probably get that amount of money reimbursed to me as the recall letter states.

[simanco]

Can anyone post a pic (or just a description) of where the switch is located on a 2000 Grand Marquis? I found it easily enough on the 95, but not on the 2000.

Our letter for the 95 said the recall covered vehicles up to 2004, and when I called our dealer to check on parts (2nd week of October) they confirmed that the 2000 was under recall.

Any and all help would be appreciated; I'd rather not drive the 40 miles to the dealership!

Thanks,
Jim

[silvercloud]

I guess everyone has gotten the recall letter by now. I received two a few days ago. One for my 96 Cartier,and one for my 96 Grand Marquis LS.

[Brian C]

I got my recall notice a few days ago. My switch is on the bottom of the master cylinder, facing downwards.

It's my understanding the switch may leak...then fill the connector with brake fluid, thereby shorting out the circuit and causing the fire. And the circuit is live all the time.

Now.......Does that mean that this circuit isn't already fused???!!!! Or does the circuit it's on, just not have a small enough fuse in it, to handle anything other than a dead hard short????

Mine's not leaking. But I really don't want to bother screwing around waiting at a dealer to get it fixed. The dealer in my area sucks.

I unplugged mine, and pumped a wad of GE Silicone2 in the connector on the wiring harness end, and tie wrapped it up so it's not just hanging there.

If I sell the car, I'll just tell the next owner what I did, keep the recall notice in the owners manual case, and let him deal with it. I only used the cruise control once. The day I bought the car, just to see if it worked. LOL

[Steven]

I'm kinda pissed that replacing the switch wasn't made mandatory.. I'm just gonna get (buy) the kit myself and do it right...

Is the connector the same on old vs new switches? I'd rather not have that fuse link, just the new switch.

[v8_dave]

I'm kinda pissed that replacing the switch wasn't made mandatory.. I'm just gonna get (buy) the kit myself and do it right...

Is the connector the same on old vs new switches? I'd rather not have that fuse link, just the new switch.

Completely different, the kit comes with a fuse link connector so you get both fuse and switch. Check that first pic you stole. :D

[Steven]

...Check that first pic you stole. :D

:duel:

them are fightin words....

:duel:

Thanks :)

[phrawg]

:mad: If the switch is the problem part that fails then adding a fuse is
not going to protect the car from a fire, not correct a known problem
with the switch that will cause it to fail eventually. All the deal does
is stocks the dealers shelves with LOTS of switches if they dont install
it and just install the fuse. INSIST that the WHOLE KIT be used on your
vehicle and the old one be shown to you. In fact make a identifiable
scratch or mark on it before you go to have it changed to make sure
it is done. It is burning fluid that starts the fire. Fluid does not leak from
a FUSE :confused: :mad:. Insist that the WHOLE KIT be used. Phrawg

[v8_dave]

:mad: If the switch is the problem part that fails then adding a fuse is
not going to protect the car from a fire, not correct a known problem
with the switch that will cause it to fail eventually. All the deal does
is stocks the dealers shelves with LOTS of switches if they dont install
it and just install the fuse. INSIST that the WHOLE KIT be used on your
vehicle and the old one be shown to you. In fact make a identifiable
scratch or mark on it before you go to have it changed to make sure
it is done. It is burning fluid that starts the fire. Fluid does not leak from
a FUSE :confused: :mad:. Insist that the WHOLE KIT be used. Phrawg

Agreed, its easy to just drop a few drops of used brake fluid on the switch so you dont have to argue though.

[Kielbasa]

Hi guys:
I just got off the phone from a parts man at a dealer. He told me that the switch isn't the recall reason. It's the harness. He told me that the kit that has been out, which includes a switch and a harness, has a bad harness. Is he telling me the truth,,,,,,, I have no clue.
The funny part is, my cruise stopped working about 3-4 months ago and the recall came out right after my dad and I came up with the diactavator switch being bad. I received my recall notice about a week and a half ago. I really don't feel like waiting until this so called "new harness kit" comes in, whenever that will be. It pretty much is a hassle to drive on the highway without the cruise. I might go buy a new switch and have it put in and see if the cruise will work. My current switch does not leak. The guy in the parts department mentioned that the harness might be causing my cruise not to work. I find that a little hard to believe.
My cruise stopped working after I disengaged it on the highway after coming up apond on a truck. When I went to reset it, it would not engage or set.

[Brian C]

Hi guys:
I just got off the phone from a parts man at a dealer. He told me that the switch isn't the recall reason. It's the harness. He told me that the kit that has been out, which includes a switch and a harness, has a bad harness. Is he telling me the truth,,,,,,, I have no clue.
The funny part is, my cruise stopped working about 3-4 months ago and the recall came out right after my dad and I came up with the diactavator switch being bad. I received my recall notice about a week and a half ago. I really don't feel like waiting until this so called "new harness kit" comes in, whenever that will be. It pretty much is a hassle to drive on the highway without the cruise. I might go buy a new switch and have it put in and see if the cruise will work. My current switch does not leak. The guy in the parts department mentioned that the harness might be causing my cruise not to work. I find that a little hard to believe.
My cruise stopped working after I disengaged it on the highway after coming up apond on a truck. When I went to reset it, it would not engage or set.

I think I'd pull a scam in your case. Go to another dealer, but don't tell him the cruise isn't working. Let him do whatever with the recall, then when you go to leave, come back 10 minutes later, and tell him......"Hey, now my cruise isn't working at all. It was fine before". :-)

[Shrewsbury]

Hi No0C

That is correct, speed control is de-activated by dumping the vacuum on early 92 models.

The switch that catches fire is actually the secondry (or safety :rolleyes:) method of speed control de-activation the primary one is from the brake light circuit.

Regards

Dereck

So by extrapolation, that means that my early 92 Grand Marquis with the old AOD ain't got this problem? :confused:

[Mark9]

This is what appears to be the nitty-gritty (from a CNN investigation):
------------------------------------
The switch, which costs about $20, shuts off the cruise control when the driver firmly steps on the brakes. The switch is located under the hood of the vehicle and is attached to the brake master cylinder on one end and wired to the cruise control on the other.

On most of its models, Ford designed the switch to be powered -- or "hot" -- at all times, even when the vehicle is off. Inside the switch, a thin film barrier separates brake fluid from the switch's electrical components.

Investigators say fires can occur when the film cracks and brake fluid from the master cylinder seeps into the electrical side of the switch, corroding it. In its statement Wednesday, Ford said its investigation found that to be true.

"In rare cases, the corrosion in the electrical components can lead to increasing resistance and higher electrical current flow through the system," the company said. "Together, these conditions could lead to overheating and, possibly, a fire at the switch. This system interaction is the result of the close proximity and orientation of the speed control components in the recalled vehicles."

Ford said to fix the problem it will install a "fused wiring harness between the speed control
deactivation switch and the speed control mechanism of the affected vehicles."
"This will act as a circuit breaker, eliminating the electrical current to the switch in the rare event of increased current flow through the switch," the company said.
-------------------------------------------

The only thing that puzzels me is that higher resistance will reduce electrical flow in the circuit. BUT, the bad connection caused by corrosion could easily cause over-heating in the switch end. Obviously enough to ignite something there (wires start burning, etc).

..

[BillyBob TC]

This is what appears to be the nitty-gritty (from a CNN investigation):
------------------------------------
The switch, which costs about $20, shuts off the cruise control when the driver firmly steps on the brakes. The switch is located under the hood of the vehicle and is attached to the brake master cylinder on one end and wired to the cruise control on the other.

On most of its models, Ford designed the switch to be powered -- or "hot" -- at all times, even when the vehicle is off. Inside the switch, a thin film barrier separates brake fluid from the switch's electrical components.

Investigators say fires can occur when the film cracks and brake fluid from the master cylinder seeps into the electrical side of the switch, corroding it. In its statement Wednesday, Ford said its investigation found that to be true.

"In rare cases, the corrosion in the electrical components can lead to increasing resistance and higher electrical current flow through the system," the company said. "Together, these conditions could lead to overheating and, possibly, a fire at the switch. This system interaction is the result of the close proximity and orientation of the speed control components in the recalled vehicles."

Ford said to fix the problem it will install a "fused wiring harness between the speed control
deactivation switch and the speed control mechanism of the affected vehicles."
"This will act as a circuit breaker, eliminating the electrical current to the switch in the rare event of increased current flow through the switch," the company said.
-------------------------------------------

The only thing that puzzels me is that higher resistance will reduce electrical flow in the circuit. BUT, the bad connection caused by corrosion could easily cause over-heating in the switch end. Obviously enough to ignite something there (wires start burning, etc).

..

Soooo what they are really saying is that your thin film may STILL collapse and leak, but Fords giving you a new fuse to head off a fire. In other words, next week, month, year Joe Ford is driving along on the highway when his cruise 'suddenly' quits. Ok so it prevented a fire, but now Joe has to buy a new switch (and probably harness as well) anyway.
If this is correct, I think I will do the kit as V8-Dave did and staple the bill to my recall notice.

[Mark9]

Yes, that's exactly right. The original switch Ford installed was from Texas Instruments. It seems that to date everyone agrees that the specific problem is that there is a fair probability that the membrane separating the fluid from the switch contacts will eventually fail. TI says that their switches were never intended to have power applied at all times (I don't see what that has to do with the membrane giving way and/or leaking under braking pressure) and that Ford only spec'd the switch for 1 amp current flow. Of, course Ford disagrees with that statement.

Regardless, if or when the membrane leaks brake fluid into the electrical cavity of the switch it will cause a constant current flow of about 15 amps in the circuit. It seems that the wiring was evidently never designed to handle a constant day in and day out flow of 15 amps, and will over heat the end of the switch and the wiring at the electrical connector. Brake fluid flashes around 1200 degF - so the flame that starts evidently is reaching that temperature to ignite the fluid.

I wouldn't think that simply fusing the cuircuit is the total answer. Yes, it'll kill the current flow at some lower level then the 15 amps discussed, but then you have a cruise control circuit that won't shut down when you hit the brakes. In my notifications letters from Ford all they mention is "Fused wiring harness" (that will become available "in the 4th quatter of 2007"), nothing about replacing the switch.

Ford changed to a different switch design somewhere around 2002; leading one to suspect that they had an inkling that the switch was failure prone at some point in it's life, IMHO.

.

[BillyBob TC]

Yes, that's exactly right. The original switch Ford installed was from Texas Instruments. It seems that to date everyone agrees that the specific problem is that there is a fair probability that the membrane separating the fluid from the switch contacts will eventually fail. TI says that their switches were never intended to have power applied at all times (I don't see what that has to do with the membrane giving way and/or leaking under braking pressure) and that Ford only spec'd the switch for 1 amp current flow. Of, course Ford disagrees with that statement.

Regardless, if or when the membrane leaks brake fluid into the electrical cavity of the switch it will cause a constant current flow of about 15 amps in the circuit. It seems that the wiring was evidently never designed to handle a constant day in and day out flow of 15 amps, and will over heat the end of the switch and the wiring at the electrical connector. Brake fluid flashes around 1200 degF - so the flame that starts evidently is reaching that temperature to ignite the fluid.

I wouldn't think that simply fusing the cuircuit is the total answer. Yes, it'll kill the current flow at some lower level then the 15 amps discussed, but then you have a cruise control circuit that won't shut down when you hit the brakes. In my notifications letters from Ford all they mention is "Fused wiring harness" (that will become available "in the 4th quatter of 2007"), nothing about replacing the switch.

Ford changed to a different switch design somewhere around 2002; leading one to suspect that they had an inkling that the switch was failure prone at some point in it's life, IMHO.

.

One other question/thought Mark 9, you seem like a wealth of info ;)
Has it ever been determined which way the defect comes about? Does the heat from the constant 15 amps cause the membrane to fail (melt etc.), the fluid to leak, short, thusly fire. OR is it the membrane fails FIRST, leaks, shorts into a fire? To me it seems like the latter. 15 amps just sitting there wont create heat not being used, like a socket in a house.....does the switch 'use' 15 amps each time the brake pedal is pressed, say sitting at a light? Or is it ONLY 15 amps at a tap to disengage cruise?
This is really just a curiosity, as I used to work for an agency that stress tested aircraft electronics. We used to test/xray components such as these 100's of times the limits they were designed for - electrical, moisture, thermal, sonic etc. Junk like this should never happen, albeit our testing was horrifically expensive.

[98TC-Cartier]

The switch is in "on mode" until you press hard on the brake pedal which breaks the current flow to the cruise control unit.

There is not a constant 15 amp current flow thru the switch. The problem is the switch is has power to it at all times. Film breaks down, corrosion and overheating of the switch starts, switch internal parts break down more, now there is current flow to ground thru the switch body, shortly thereafter there is a fire.

If the fuse in the new harness blows, you will not have a working cruise control.

[PROSTOCK]

So, why couldn't you just jumper the switch harness, effectively bypassing the switch? I realize it is a secondary, redundant cruise killer to the brake light switch, but I think it's really unneccesary? What do you all think about that?

[Mark9]

According to the information that I've been able to find, enough brake switches have been examined that were on the verge of failure that had cracks and small leaks in the membrane to point to the membrane failing first. The brake fluid conducts electricity so the fluid starts the current flow.

The current flow will be high as you press the brake pedal; but the second you release the pedal the current flows drops to zero (membrane isn't pressing the contacts together). As long as your foot is on the brake pedal then there will be current flow, but you don't sit there hour after hour with your foot on the brake.

When enough fluid leaks into the contact cavity, then there will be a current flow. I've wondered why, as the fluid first starts seeping into the connector area, the first few drops of brake fluid don't flash as soon as the fluid bridges the contacts. The spark created should ignite the brake fluid, one would think; unless the switch is hermetically sealed (probably).

Your comment regarding cycling the switches to find the failure rate is well taken. There is no excuse why this tendency to fail wasn't found during quality control testing. Both TI and Ford BOTH are guilty of not doing a decent job of preventing the loss of lives and property. Very little engineering effort would have been required to have prevented the problem - starting with TI and moving on to Ford. For example, a simple mechanical switch on the brake pedal would have done the job for less money and sure as hell would have been more reliable.

At the bottom of the problem is Ford's tendency to keep too many circuits hot unnecessarily when the vehicle is turned off, IMHO.

..

[moez1010@yahoo.com]

Hey there.
I came over here because a good guy said that you all were giving
this recall a good going over.

I noticed that many were questioning why the switch was not being replaced. If it could short out then why not?

Cause it aint the switch and the harness is not going to help either.

Here's why.

If you took the input wire from that switch and touched it to ground.
Something would blow .A fuse ,fuse link something.

I think the problem is in the Cruise unit itself and here is how.

When the crusie control is on it has a firm grip on the throttle. You push the brake to shut it off and the switch sends signal to that it's time to stop whatever breaks the hold is borderline addequate but has a job where no is not an option. so current is applied until the break is made.Like any electrical apllpliance if its working harder it's going to draw more juice.

Like an overloaded extension cord or a wire directly shorted across a battery the wire is going to heat from positive and move towards the negative.

So what is happening is the wire is heating from where it starts and heating thru the curcuit.

Somewhere along the line that curcuit runs thru the PCM. The increase in current flow creates heat that also heats inside the module and starts to break down the wire until it shorts thru the PCM. When it shorts it brings addition curcuits into the mix and ya got a nice hot multi curcuit short.

Additionally, iI believe that the PCM senses the current being drawn and starts to produce and conserve power by cutting the grounds to certain devices like A/C and Moonroof.

PCM is screaming for Alt to produce and produce pushing it to early failure.

Ford must have been aware of the draw and the early death of alternators because from 94 to 95 alt output went from 95 amps tp 130 amps. They didnt add a tanning bed to the 95's did they.Why 30 percent increase?

When checking for draws in the shop they wouldnt have the cruise on and it got over looked.

Regardless of what switch or harness they put on... there is still a damaged
curcuit and PCM that are the weakest link.

Ford is using smoke and mirrors to get you to look the way they want you looking.

That way after the switch is all behind them they can still charge and arm and a leg for the PCM that should have been replaced to begin with or an alternator that burns out every year and a half.

When you push the brake the crusie is going to disconnect. No exceptions.
when that switch closed and current goes to PCM. The disconnect is getting energizes until the PCM recieves a signal it is off. If control resists PCM still applies juice and it heats the curcuit and damages surrounding curcuits and eventually finds a path to ground

This problem has been slow in developing. Low mile cars with limited Cruise use will show no signs. Heavy use with many on off and coast use will be more advanced. No way for Ford to determine which so they dont want to open that can of worms and have to replace all. (Prediction: Eventually they will)

If they offered a PCM I would probably accept it but not put it on. Save it for a back up. engine portion works too wonderfully. i ran my own ground for A/C and it works fine. Safety controls and such cut the power to the compressor on the positive side thru a relay so it is safe.

I appreciate that there are places where a person can put there two cents in and I dont mind being told my theories are full of holes or crap or both.

Ive been wrong before and will be wrong again that im sure of.
Sure would like some feed back on this one

i know when something dont make sense to me and this sure dont and judging by the posts i'm not the only one.

Im not sure whether this is a dollar and cent thing, they just dont get it
or some engineers are coming up with new ideas so they dont have to admit they were wrong.

[v8_dave]

Appreciate the theory Moez1010. I would like to see what another electrical engineer has to say about this.

Ford wiring is always been crap. My headlight brightness practically doubled after relaying them. :(

[white lincoln]

Here's something you might find interesting:

http://planet.cnm.edu/bpearce/1995Lincoln/Recalls/index.htm

http://planet.cnm.edu/bpearce/1995Lincoln/Recalls/recall1.gif

[sirjames]

I recieved a letter a few weeks ago about the recall. Phoned the dealer and they said to "come on down". They had the part! It only took about 5 minutes to install the fuseable wire and they were very pleased with themselves! Even called me the next day to inquire about my 'experience' of the whole thing. Believe it or not I live in Colorado...... not California!

[white lincoln]

I just called my dealer and they will not have for another month or two. I live in New Mexico. I am not that far from Colorado - what's up with that?

[skinhead]

See, this is something thats kinda bothering me, you see, my dad drives a 2001 Mazda B3000 pickup, basically a rebadged Ranger, would it have the same switch?

[PROSTOCK]

Mark9 and Moez, I think you guys are mis-interpreting how this switch works. After studying the schematics, it looks to me like that switch is normally closed...applying power to the servo all the time. When you step on the brake, 2 things occur. The brake light switch kills the cruise, and the switch we are all talking about, opens and kills the power to the servo. It's redundant. I still wanna hear whether you can just jumper that switch and eliminate the servo killer and just rely on the brake light switch?

[white lincoln]

Prostock,
Did the way the guy in the article @ http://planet.cnm.edu/bpearce/1995Lincoln/Recalls/index.htm
solve the problem for you?

[PROSTOCK]

I have not seen that, his description lacks a little, so I have to read between the lines some, but I think that is what I am proposing. Basically he's cutting the connector off and splicing the wires together via a 5 amp fuse.

[white lincoln]

I have not seen that, his description lacks a little, so I have to read between the lines some, but I think that is what I am proposing. Basically he's cutting the connector off and splicing the wires together via a 5 amp fuse.

Correct. I think I will wait for the part. If it ain't leaking, I am not worrying about it.

[Kielbasa]

Has anyone here replaced this switch themselves? I bought the switch replacement kit today. The parts man said that you do not have to bleed the brakes after you change it. Some fluid will probably come out.

[white lincoln]

I have not heard of anyone that has done this, but I would imagine there would be a small amount of fluid loss.

[v8_dave]

Has anyone here replaced this switch themselves? I bought the switch replacement kit today. The parts man said that you do not have to bleed the brakes after you change it. Some fluid will probably come out.

I havnt done it yet, procrastinating: http://www.lincolnsonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51732

[moez1010@yahoo.com]

Havent misinterpretted the switck.

Ive been saying all along there isnt anything wrong with that switch.

Switch is normally closed.

if the switch is live with ignition or hot all the time very time when the brake is pushed the connection is broken. This could cause an arc and surely would if something on the curcuit pulling more juice than it should as I have stated.

Lets say for a minute that the switch is leaking. Everytime the brake is pushed
more fluid is entering under pressure from the brake system. iwouldnt take long for that fluid to have and effect on your braking. a lek in that switch is just like a leak in a brake line. Fluid would be squirting out of that switch connector.

That connector not being liquid tight fluid would leak out as it entered.

Say enough leaked in and connected the two terminals then power would be
going to the servo at all times but cruise gets cut by brake pedal too .

I havent seen any pictures of the fires but I dont think it was the fluid in the master cylinder igniting.

If it is an electrical fire where did the ground come from? A 12 v wire shorting across the fluid to the inside of the master cylinder is far fetched.
Maybe 220 volts AC but not 12 volts.

I cant see the membrane and protective coating in the switch to keep it
from grounding out failing together to give it a ground thru the switch itself.

Fluid leaking out the connector and causing a short to frame on models with switch mounted down below the master cylinder MAYBE but somewhere that curcuit is fused, May be hot constantly but it is protected.

Swiitches are SAFE. Safety switches are even more safe. You wont find a
high side A/C switch at Discount auto stores because they dont go bad very
often.

Put a pin hole in one of your brake lines and i'll bet you see problems
with braking before you get to the freeway.

Im standing on this recall situation is not the same as Ford or not what they are telling me. Its posted here and is not the switch

Good Luck

[white lincoln]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't brake fluid highly flamable? (yes!)

Mix a spark and some brake fluid and wa-la!

http://www.shoyer.com/mgb/fire!.htm

[moez1010@yahoo.com]

Thanks. Didnt know that if was highly flammable. Were you the one that said 1200 degree flash temp?

I dont care how strong I feel about my theory i'm certainly not guenia piggin on my Lincoln.

Step on the brake and a little flame shoots out the side of the master
cylinder.

You can have the hottest spark and a ton of combustable but ya gotta
have AIR too. Might wanna bleed you brakes.

So will this stuff shoot a flame like hair spray if shot from a spray bottle.
Was it invented for flame throwers in WW 1? Will it seep into a piece
of wood to make a outdoor fireplace start on a windy day? Ive had some
treated pressed paper logs that kinda smelled like brake fluid.

If we lived on the moon we couldnt have all these nice things cause there's
no AIR.

I dont take nothing to heart here. I like positive and negative feedback.

Good luck

[white lincoln]

My stance is still - "If it has not happened in 12 years, I doubt it will happen anytime soon".

Seems most of the reports are from newer vehicals: "The recall in January affected about 792,000 Ford F-150 pickups, Ford Expeditions and Lincoln Navigators from the 2000 model year." The recall is more for the newer models and Ford is just covering bases by recalling all models that had that switch installed.

http://www.fordfires.com/

There have been 600 fires reported out of an estimated 3.6 million vehicals. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that it is 1 in 21,600,000 chances of it happening to you. Or a .02 chance of it happening.:eek: Of course these factors are general and if you have a 2000 model, your chances are higher.

http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/1724#more-1724

[BillyBob TC]

My stance is still - "If it has not happened in 12 years, I doubt it will happen anytime soon".

Seems most of the reports are from newer vehicals: "The recall in January affected about 792,000 Ford F-150 pickups, Ford Expeditions and Lincoln Navigators from the 2000 model year." The recall is more for the newer models and Ford is just covering bases by recalling all models that had that switch installed.

http://www.fordfires.com/

There have been 600 fires reported out of an estimated 3.6 million vehicals. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that it is 1 in 21,600,000 chances of it happening to you. Or a .02 chance of it happening.:eek: Of course these factors are general and if you have a 2000 model, your chances are higher.

http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/1724#more-1724

If you go ONLY by the reported fires, thats 1 in 6000. How can it be 1 in 21 million, if only 3.6 million made?? Also, as with any report, this is only considering people that DO report the fire/problem. How many do not, or only have a puff of smoke and no fire?
Anyway, I do also believe as you do, if it hasnt happened in 12 years, will it ever??

[white lincoln]

If you go ONLY by the reported fires, thats 1 in 6000. How can it be 1 in 21 million, if only 3.6 million made??

Sorry about that chief...

I used the wrong percentage calculator.


btw: It was 1 in 600...

[508gm1]

How can we tell if our lincoln is paqrt of the recall. i there a website I can enter the vin number into?

Cheers, Brendan

[skinhead]

How can we tell if our lincoln is paqrt of the recall. i there a website I can enter the vin number into?

Cheers, Brendan

92+ with the AODE transmission

[guthrie]

Hi,
I have a '96 & '93...is the same P/N# for the repair kit the same for both etc...and what is the P/N#?

thanks,
Anthony

[Kielbasa]

Well I had my deactivator switch changed today. FINALLY! BUT...... my speed control STILL DOES NOT WORK! Does anyone have any clue as of what can be wrong with this F'n speed control?
My rear brake lights work, so I was informed at my local Ford dealer that the brake pedal switch is okay then. Steering wheels switches have been changed and now that deactivator switch has been changed.
Does anyone know what is involved with checking the servo and the cable?

:mad:

[Steven]

I think I'd pull a scam in your case. Go to another dealer, but don't tell him the cruise isn't working. Let him do whatever with the recall, then when you go to leave, come back 10 minutes later, and tell him......"Hey, now my cruise isn't working at all. It was fine before". :-)

Didn't listen to Brian's advise 'eh.. :)

[Kielbasa]

The only reason why....... I can't stand driving without my cruise. It's been 3 months and I don't want to wait until 2008 to get it back. But at the rate I'm going, it might be that long! ;)
I also had the car aligned this morning! Boy do the dealers rip you off. $137.00 for 1 1/4 hours to align it. I asked about the switches. The guy told me he has seen only one of those switches leak out of how many years that he's been at this dealer. 33 years.
Anyway, I hope I can get this situation resolved! :confused:

[skinhead]

$137 for and alignment! Dude, you should have just taken it to NTB, they did mine for $75! And its perfect, drives straight as an arrow! I went to my Lincoln dealer first to get it aligned, and the manager just sent me directly to NTB since the dealer doesn't do in-house alignments. So unless your dealer actually has an alignment machine (most don't) they probably just took it to NTB and ripped you off by over $50...

[Kielbasa]

I've been to (3) different places to have it aligned. All (3) could not get it right! Believe me, I did NOT want to go to the dealer! But I couldn't find a place that could get it right. It still sort........ of wants to go left and right at certain times and when I hit uneven roads or when I back into my driveway I get a kind of slight clunk noise from the driver front tire area, but it's night and day! The tires I use for summer are getting old and they think I new set of summer tires (should) do wonders. The word (should) does not set well with me.

[skinhead]

Hmm, is your front end all good? Some parts might be worn out, like ball joints, end links, pitman arm, idler arm...

[Kielbasa]

I've taken this car to 3 private garages and now to the dealer. All of them said my suspension parts and front end parts were fine. I've told all of them to check EVERYTHING. The last time I brought it to my mechanic, I told him to take the whole front end apart of he has to to find the problem.

I still the the Michelin XW4's on the car. I bought (2) used tires..... last summer, (2006) because I wasn't sure what I wanted to put on. I like the soft feel in a car and in the tires. I do not like to feel the bumps in the road when I drive. These old and older MX4's will last until November when I put my winter wheels and snow tires on. I use the Cooper Weathermaster for my snows. Gives the car a great ride and it's really not loud on the road either. I was very surprised at this!

Maybe the tires have something to do with it? They all look pretty well worn, even though they are old. But I want to say they are not the problem.

[guthrie]

Hi,
I have a '96 & '93...is the same P/N# for the repair kit the same for both etc...and what is the P/N#?

thanks,
Anthony

BBUMP

[BillyBob TC]

Hey all. I did my brake repair today. I wanted to do both the kit parts, rather than just the recalled harness part. Here is a pic of the new install if interested.
I autopsied the old part, gonna post seperate though to explain a bit....

[Kielbasa]

Chicopee....... that's Blue Seal KIELBASA territory! :drink:

[BillyBob TC]

In the first pic, the switch basically divides in half. Note the plastic section on right is 100% dry, near perfect condition.
Im not sure of how these function though - perhaps someone will know.....the tiny ceramic 'pin' in the left half is always 'out', pressing upon the contacts in the right half. The pin can be pushed in, towards the brake fluid. So Im guessing that the absence of fluid or pressure, opens the contacts.....

The second pic shows the switch apart all in a row, as they are assembled. (the hole in the metal disc and round kapton are from me). The kapton discs were all perfect, the outer square one has alot of grey metal rubbing marks. I cannot see how its possible for this to leak. hopefully this may help someone, and 'bump' V8-Dave to install his kit! :o;)

[v8_dave]

Good work, thanks! Someday...

[Plynch]

Think i can get the part replaced within the United Kingdom?

[moez1010@yahoo.com]

My friend has a 97 Explorer and his had signs of leakage right where the two halves meet.

He has the Hydraulic pump on his SUV and i think the pressure is more constant or stronger than the older vacuum assisted brakes.

Unlike the Anti Lock brakes that have pressure and then some relief that switch gets pressure banged off the back of it each time the brake goes down
and heavy brakers even more. Wears it out.

I'd bet majority of leakers have that pump.

Good Luck

[Kielbasa]

This is not about the recall, but it has to do with the speed control:

Has anyone ever changed the servo on these speed control systems? My problem is leading and pointing to the servo being bad. If so, where did you purchase it? Dealer? used? :eek:..... How costly are they?

I mentioned to the parts man at the Ford dealer...... that there's not much more to change. He did mention the computer under the dash possibly.... being the problem. :eek:

I checked the cable for the servo. It looks fine and seems to mover freely.

The only thing I question is, the round "white" plastic wheel that the cable wraps around inside the servo, is it supposed to be 100% round? At the top, mine has a flat spot. At first, I thought it might be broken or cracked off, but I didn't find any piece if it was broken.

Any suggestions?

[Len Better]

Hi

I bet my Town Car isn't covered as one of the 177,000 vehicles in Canada, Mexico and Europe :(

Regards

Dereck


Hi Dereck. All these messages tend to apply to the US of A. If I approach a local FORD UK agent will they deal with this recall?. If not who can we go to in the UK. Len

[Kielbasa]

Okay guys........ this speed cotrol problem is really starting to piss me off!

I bought a used servo form the bone yard today. Guess what..... the speed control STILL doesn't work! What the hell is goin on here?

I've changed the steering wheels controls, deactivator switch and now the servo. Granted, the servo could be bad, but this is just getting to be one pain in the ass.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS HERE? :confused:

[Dereck]

Okay guys........ this speed cotrol problem is really starting to piss me off!

I bought a used servo form the bone yard today. Guess what..... the speed control STILL doesn't work! What the hell is goin on here?

I've changed the steering wheels controls, deactivator switch and now the servo. Granted, the servo could be bad, but this is just getting to be one pain in the ass.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS HERE? :confused:

Hi Kielbasa

Have you actually tested the outputs from the switches? Does the horn work? Have you checked fuse 7? Clockspring maybe!

Regards

Dereck

[Dereck]

Hey there.
I came over here because a good guy said that you all were giving
this recall a good going over.

I noticed that many were questioning why the switch was not being replaced. If it could short out then why not?

Cause it aint the switch and the harness is not going to help either.

Here's why.

If you took the input wire from that switch and touched it to ground.
Something would blow .A fuse ,fuse link something.

I think the problem is in the Cruise unit itself and here is how.

When the crusie control is on it has a firm grip on the throttle. You push the brake to shut it off and the switch sends signal to that it's time to stop whatever breaks the hold is borderline addequate but has a job where no is not an option. so current is applied until the break is made.Like any electrical apllpliance if its working harder it's going to draw more juice.

Like an overloaded extension cord or a wire directly shorted across a battery the wire is going to heat from positive and move towards the negative.

So what is happening is the wire is heating from where it starts and heating thru the curcuit.

Somewhere along the line that curcuit runs thru the PCM. The increase in current flow creates heat that also heats inside the module and starts to break down the wire until it shorts thru the PCM. When it shorts it brings addition curcuits into the mix and ya got a nice hot multi curcuit short.

Additionally, iI believe that the PCM senses the current being drawn and starts to produce and conserve power by cutting the grounds to certain devices like A/C and Moonroof.

PCM is screaming for Alt to produce and produce pushing it to early failure.

Ford must have been aware of the draw and the early death of alternators because from 94 to 95 alt output went from 95 amps tp 130 amps. They didnt add a tanning bed to the 95's did they.Why 30 percent increase?

When checking for draws in the shop they wouldnt have the cruise on and it got over looked.

Regardless of what switch or harness they put on... there is still a damaged
curcuit and PCM that are the weakest link.

Ford is using smoke and mirrors to get you to look the way they want you looking.

That way after the switch is all behind them they can still charge and arm and a leg for the PCM that should have been replaced to begin with or an alternator that burns out every year and a half.

When you push the brake the crusie is going to disconnect. No exceptions.
when that switch closed and current goes to PCM. The disconnect is getting energizes until the PCM recieves a signal it is off. If control resists PCM still applies juice and it heats the curcuit and damages surrounding curcuits and eventually finds a path to ground

This problem has been slow in developing. Low mile cars with limited Cruise use will show no signs. Heavy use with many on off and coast use will be more advanced. No way for Ford to determine which so they dont want to open that can of worms and have to replace all. (Prediction: Eventually they will)

If they offered a PCM I would probably accept it but not put it on. Save it for a back up. engine portion works too wonderfully. i ran my own ground for A/C and it works fine. Safety controls and such cut the power to the compressor on the positive side thru a relay so it is safe.

I appreciate that there are places where a person can put there two cents in and I dont mind being told my theories are full of holes or crap or both.

Ive been wrong before and will be wrong again that im sure of.
Sure would like some feed back on this one

i know when something dont make sense to me and this sure dont and judging by the posts i'm not the only one.

Im not sure whether this is a dollar and cent thing, they just dont get it
or some engineers are coming up with new ideas so they dont have to admit they were wrong.



Ive been saying all along there isnt anything wrong with that switch.



Hi Moez1010@yahoo.com

Geez where did you get all this crap from? You smoke a bad joint or summut?

The PCM has nothing to do with alternator output, alternator output is controlled by the voltage regulator strapped to the back of it also the PCM doesn't cut grounds the conserve power.

Where did you get the idea that on 92 onwards Town Cars the PCM has anything to do with the cruise control? It Doesn't!

Ford increased the alternator power output on later cars because more and more electrical goodies were being fitted to the cars and the lower rated alternators couldn't keep up with demand, nothing to do with hiding a shorted wire fault.

If there is nothing wrong with the switches why would Ford recall 3 million cars unless they had to.

May I suggest you keep your irrational thoughts to yourself.

Regards

Dereck

[Mark9]

Awww, Dereck, don't be so hard on poor moez1010@yahoo.com. Reading his inane comments provided many chuckles and some outright laughs. The fellow obviously is a studious individual; but, unfortunately has a few too many mental "wires" crossed.

Maybe if he visited Helm's site and purchased the electrical manual for a Town Car he would be able to spend many happy hours endlessly documenting each signal/ground line to his heart's content...

(Doubt if he would understand it, though)


..

[Kielbasa]

We tested everything. Horn works, fuse is okay. Brake lights work. Like I said in another post. I bought a used servo from a bone yard on Saturday for $50 and changed it. That didn't do anything. Now that servo could be bad. I wanted to try a used one first. The dealer quoted me. $214 for a new one.

[98TC-Cartier]

Did you pull the connector off the brake line switch and put a jumper in it to see if your cruise control will work?

[Kielbasa]

You are speaking of the switch behind the pedal brake correct? There are 2 wires coming off that switch. It's a bear to get under there and check. I was told if I do that, my brake lights will be on all the time. The brake lights work.

I stopped at 2 Ford dealers today. They pretty much do not want to know you unless you spend the $80 or $92 an hour for an hours labor. SOB's. One tech as you MIGHT call him was a cocky SOB. I felt like popping him right in the nose. :box:

[98TC-Cartier]

No, I am referring to the switch screwed into the master cylinder or brake line, the recalled one.

[98TC-Cartier]

BTW, I don't blame the techs, they spend a fortune on training and tools, and unless you are a friend of one, they aren't inclined to sabotage their wallet for you.

[Kielbasa]

The parts tech that I talked to was just an A-hole period.

[98TC-Cartier]

Oh you mean a pc-a-hole, yea I've run into a few of those over the years, they act like they are doing you a big favor by saying hi, and seem to want a fiver for doing you the favor of looking up a part so you can purchase it.

[white lincoln]

Oh you mean a pc-a-hole, yea I've run into a few of those over the years, they act like they are doing you a big favor by saying hi, and seem to want a fiver for doing you the favor of looking up a part so you can purchase it.

WHAT IS WITH SOME OF THESE PARTS PEOPLE?!!! :eek::mad:

I quit going to Autozone because most of the counter people all had an attitude. At Checker Auto (Parts America) they treat me like a customer and "what can I help you with today?" They say hi when walk in and goodbye and thank you when you leave. It has been this way for a couple of years now and just keeps going. Maybe I am lucky because this store has some great people in it, but none the less, this is the way it should be. The other store up the hill has okay service but some of the crew seem to be from punk bands or high school drop outs. But the service is not as bad as Autozone. I know if I sent an email to the general manager of Autozone, I would probably not hear back from them because they don't care. As long as the bucks are rolling in, who cares about the customer?

[Kielbasa]

When I went to the dealer, the guy in the service department ask how he could help me. A so called..... tech CLOWN came by and the service department guy asked him what could be wrong with my speed control. So the tech drilled me like I was in the service and talked down to me. When he was done treating me like was down here and he was up there, the service department guy asked what else could he do, the tech-hole pointed to the $80 an hour sign. Of course you can imagine what I was saying under my breath to this arrogant P _ ick. I said thank you and when I said good bye and thank you to the service department guy, he didn't even acknowledge me. This was exactually why my dad and I are trying to fix it ourselves. If these CLOWNS treat you like this when you are right in front of them, you can imagine what they do to your car.

And may I add. a gentleman that was in line before me came in for the recall on his 1992 Ford van. He brought it in the have it disconnected. Well we all know that this is maybe about................. a 1 minute job? Well him and I talked for about 30 minutes. I told the guy he should have been out of here 25 minutes ago.

#1 reason why I hate to go to a dealer. THEY GLUE, SCREW AND TATOO YOU!

[Kielbasa]

That is called the deactivator switch. No we have not tried that. I'm not really sure what that will do or prove. If it will just tell me if the deactivator switch is bad, like I said it's been replaced. I changed that deactivator switch 2 weeks ago and added that harnest.

[Mark9]

Yes, it's a real shame. And not just for the guy doing his own work and just needing parts, but I really pity the poor customer that has to have someone do the work for him. Granted, the dealerships are under exteme pressure from the manufacturers; but instead of really focusing on doing the customer right, they'll try like hell to squeeze as much out of any repair work as they can. If they indeed wanted to help the company, the dealership and the customer, they would do a much better job to get the customer inclined to return. Given the ridiculous parts charges from the manufacturers these days, the above would make this a most difficult chore.

It's interesting in that recently I decided to add a Jaguar to our little herd because my wife "thought they are so cute!" Assuming that any little trinket on the Jag would be 5 times the cost of the same item in an American car; I was flabbergasted when I saw that item for item, the Jag parts are about the same, or less in most cases. Having owned a Jag XJS (V12) back in the mid-80's, I was floored by this apparant turnaround.

With the major American car companies changing CEO's almost monthly, it's no wonder these these mostly Harvard Business School educated clowns feel the the way to salvage their miserable positions is to simply squeeze the customer for every last nickel. Instead of providing REAL value that promotes loyal customers which equates to profitable sales. It's getting so that the real question is: 10 years from now which, if any, current American manufacturer will still be in business - or controlled by foreign ownership. Wonder if the rumor is true that after the next round of negotiations GM will simply give the company to the UAW. Couldn't be any worse, in fact they might pull GM ought of it's current trend of continually losing market share....

The average customer today cannot even change their own oil (probably not even a flat tire) resulting in Americans becoming more dependent on buying a new (or nearly new) car every 4-5 years. Otherwise, they get financially killed each year as their vehicle gets older and starts breaking down at an increasing rate. Those of us that perform our own work are becoming a real rarity. Now, doesn't that make you feel like a "misfit"????


..

[98TC-Cartier]

That is called the deactivator switch. No we have not tried that. I'm not really sure what that will do or prove. If it will just tell me if the deactivator switch is bad, like I said it's been replaced. I changed that deactivator switch 2 weeks ago and added that harnest.

Have you actually checked to see that you have power on both sides of that switch? Without power there, no cruise control.

[Kielbasa]

I went to a local garage today. He had a servo board. He let me try it.

:dance:


I couldn't believe it.

So my problem was the servo board. A pretty intense board in that part of speed control.

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HELP GUYS.................... :drink:

[moez1010@yahoo.com]

some people will put a 500 amp in the trunk to get their car to vibrate to the music.

Some people might buy $3000 worth of rims when ya cant shake two nickels out of them at any one time.

if Derek is the guy that determines what is rational and what is not then it is what it is.

Some of my posts yes may be off the wall. Im not telling any one to jump off a bridge.

If a BELIEF of mine is shot down then I know better next time.

Haynes manuals dont show it all.

I do know that relays have power at them and once the relay is grounded
the power flows across to the unit.

They dont just ground themselves so. Hmm maybe someone can tell me what allows a relay to ground.

Also why would a ground for say the A/C compressor clutch be in a harness going across the intake and over toward the PCM when there is perfectly good ground inches away.

Ive been looking for a list of the PCM connetor and where they go.

I saw a list of one from a BMW and it had an A?C ground terminal on the connetor and other various grounds.

I havent been looking hard because its not that important for me to be right.

I got a twenty says if B+ ever got to ground wire at the A/C clutch
results would be smoke comming from Left inner fender (PCM) and not just a smoking wire to a bolt on the fender unless its the PCM ground wires.

I dont take things for truth just because someone says so. (unless it's Towncar) I can trust someone with a sense of humor

Ive already been told in not so many words that Im an Idoit. Prove it.

People have been working for years trying to prove God does or does not exist. This shouldnt be to hard.

I dont give advice on anything that could be a safety issue. Im not
qualified.

I dont think there is anything wrong with suggesting to check compressor
first by giving it B+ and a ground. 75% will check the connections first
when a starter clicks and 25% will give juice directly to starter to make sure
it isnt bad. Some just like to know the big ticket item is OK.

But if you got 3000 dollar rims and not 2 nickels I guess money is no object

Good Luck

[PROSTOCK]

Wow!!!

Well I bypassed the deactivation swith at the M/C and my cruise has been working flawlessly ever since. This obviously leads me to surmise that the swith has been on the way out for a while, but it is not leaking. I'm thinking of either leaving it as is, or shelling out the $25 for a new switch when they are available.

[Kielbasa]

I would just go by the switch. It's only $26. Better to have the speed control, then not to have it. You'll get a newer harness. Not the recalled version, plus I doubt very much if anything will happen. I'm using my speed control.

[guthrie]

Hi,
The dactivator switch @ the M/C was $18 including the Fused harness. I talked to my local Jerks also...blah blah....the service guy tells me the parts aren't available...till 6 months, I walk over 20' read the parts guy the P/N# off the first page of this post with the pic of the recall kit on it and he drags 2 out and I'm on my way....they are IDIOTS!!!!

Good Luck,
Anthony

[BillyBob TC]

Hi,
The dactivator switch @ the M/C was $18 including the Fused harness. I talked to my local Jerks also...blah blah....the service guy tells me the parts aren't available...till 6 months, I walk over 20' read the parts guy the P/N# off the first page of this post with the pic of the recall kit on it and he drags 2 out and I'm on my way....they are IDIOTS!!!!

Good Luck,
Anthony
Thats too funny !
When I went to our local dealer, I didn't talk to the service people, I went right to parts expecting to be told 'sorry no parts for 6 months'. Nope, got mine right away.
I personally think that parts departments and service departments DO NOT speak to each other! ;) Like they are always at odds with each other.
While I was getting this brake assembly, I thought to ask this verbatum question "How much to drain the coolant and re-fill on the same car?"
he types some, writes down a part number and $18.00 on a post it. I went Huh? What? Then schedule me right away!
I was informed that parts does not! schedule service! It was $18 ( ARE THEY CRAZY???) for one gallon of coolant only.
I said sorryyyy, took my brake part and left LOLOL.

[18yr-old-w/-Town Car]

Is the speed control a do it your self job? I can see from the posts the part number and it is not too expensive. Where does it plug into? The wires go from the switch on the break cylinder into a tube with more wires and can't seem to see where it is going.

[dannypaul]

I took my car in to check that out, and they turned off my speed controll/cruse control all together.

[german97tc]

Hi all,
got a letter from the german car registrations (KBA) today, saying something like "You have to bring your car to your Ford-Dealership to get the Recall done or your car won't be street legal after April 24th". So I went to the dealer today and now they have to figure out, how to get the stuff and do it, since you can't get US-Parts at a German Ford-Dealer. But the recall came through the German Ford Headquarters, so I guess, they'll get it done. Will see...

[cason1]

I took mine in today to get it done. I put used brake fluid on the switch to get them to replace the whole thing but that didn't work. :rolleyes: They put the fused connector on. I asked the mechanic that did the work and he said that they only replaced the switch if it was leaking and mine wasn't. I was caught. :o He was impressed with how clean the engine compartment was though.;) A big thanks to OneWayStreet for his engine detailing tech article. It's amazing. I had a 3pm appointment, got there at 3:01. A few minutes later they pulled it in so I went to watch. I was pulling out of the lot at 3:17. Very efficient dealer.

[greg glen]

great info,Ijust regestered I have 92 towncar just bought 97 silver with black carriage roof this will be my fifth lincoln having it shipped from akron ohio, to canada will get picture later

[Dereck]

Hi Greg Glen

Welcome dude :cheer:

Check out This Tech Tip (http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00246.html) if you haven't allready, it will give you full details of the speed control switch debarcle.

Regards

Dereck

[95ltc]

finally got mine fixed the other day!!

[likeitruff]

I have already taken my car in for it's recall. It take a hot second for them to put on the wiring harness that's needed.

[zardiw]

I have already taken my car in for it's recall. It take a hot second for them to put on the wiring harness that's needed.

It's not a wiring harness, it's a fusible link. What they told me is that it takes too long for the current to get to the fuse if the master brake cylinder switch goes tits up.

So they put the fusible link inline with the switch harness wire, and since the fusible link (actually a thin wire that acts like a fuse) is closer to the offending switch, it blows first, and stops the wires from causing a fire.

What a load of crap.

It would seem to me that the fuse should be lower rated is all, if that is the cause of it. Electricity moves at the speed of light. If there's a short, the whole wire will burn instantly........z

[zardiw]

Oh, and the bottom line for me? 30 days after they put in the fusible link, my cruise control no longer works.

Tried bypassing the fusible link and hooking it up directly to the switch and still no joy.........Will jump the connector and see if it's the switch.......which I'm gonna replace anyway soon as I get it..........z

[no0c]

It's not a wiring harness, it's a fusible link. What they told me is that it takes too long for the current to get to the fuse if the master brake cylinder switch goes tits up.

So they put the fusible link inline with the switch harness wire, and since the fusible link (actually a thin wire that acts like a fuse) is closer to the offending switch, it blows first, and stops the wires from causing a fire.

What a load of crap.

It would seem to me that the fuse should be lower rated is all, if that is the cause of it. Electricity moves at the speed of light. If there's a short, the whole wire will burn instantly........z

If you haven't already done so, you should read the info at the following link, written by our resident expert, Dereck. Pay special attention to exactly what was the problem listed under the "Design Flaw" paragraph. Also note that the original design was not fused or fusible link protected, which is fine with me, unless defective switches are used.

http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00246.html

You will note that the current recall, not only includes the wiring harness, with fusible link but a new deactivation switch. Try another FLM dealer. Some of them just look at the pictures, maybe. A few of them read the service recalls and take care of the problems.

[zardiw]

Thanks for that info.....I asked them about replacing that switch and they said no. Just thought of something, I can run a meter across that switch to see if it's bad it's supposed to be closed all the time unless the brakes are pressed....I guess I'll just buy one and replace it myself anyway.........there's one other dealer I can try to see if they'll do it........z

[etinpa]

I gather that some people believe it is impossible for these fires to occur as described by Ford or that the Ford fix won't work. Let me get into the engineering theory behind all this.

First, let me say that Ford's trick of adding a fusible harness to fix this is exactly that... it's a "fix", not a "repair". Even if the fusible link prevents a fire, it still doesn't repair the original problem (which is a defective switch).

Now... if you look at the circuit (I'll use a 1996 Towncar as the example since I have the schematics) the switch in question is fed from a 15 amp fuse (fuse #16) which is hot at all times. The switch carries some of the power to the speed control servo motor with its built in electronics (I'll call the speed control servo motor with its built in electronics the "unit" so I don't have to keep typing all that). The idea is that if the BOO (brake on/off switch) fails this switch will turn off power to some essential part of the unit thus releasing the speed control.

I say "some part" because it does NOT remove all power from the unit. If it did the unit could not remember the speed set point and "resume" wouldn't work.

The remaining power to the unit is supplied from fuse #7 which is also 15 amps but is only powered with the ignition in run. This fuse (#7) doesn't really matter for this discussion but having a second source prevents me from guessing the actual current needed on each input. I really don't have enough interest in this to wire a meter into the circuit on my car.

Everyone seems to agree that the problem starts when the diaphragm in the switch leaks and brake fluid gets into the electrical section of the switch. The question is: Can brake fluid cause a fire without blowing the 15 amp fuse #16?

The resistance of DOT brake fluid is about 2.5 x 10^8 picoSiemens per meter.

Citation: Dey, W., “Conductivity Measurements for New Engine Compartment Fluids,” Prepared for Motor Vehicle Fire Research Institute, by Chilworth Technologies, Inc, April 2004.

Once we convert that to ohms, it means 4 Ohms per meter. If we assume the switch is about 1 cm (.01 meter) from the switch contact to the housing that would mean 4x.01 Ohms or 0.04 Ohms.

Since Ohm's law says current equals volts divided by resistance (I=E/R) and we know E is about 12 volts, then the current (if the switch is flooded with fluid) could be 12/0.04 or 300 amps. Of course, this situation would blow the fuse. It does prove mathematically that brake fluid is conductive enough to cause a "short circuit" within the switch.

If we move away from the theory and back toward reality, we know the switch's electrical compartment would not flood but would get some smaller amount of fluid in it. A film of this fluid on the interior surface of the switch could cause a conductive mass that would have a higher resistance (and, thus lower current). If the resistance gets low enough, the 15 amp fuse would blow. If the resistance gets to the right (or, if it's your vehicle, wrong) value, the current draw could be anything less than the 15 amps that would blow the fuse. Since power = current times voltage (P=IxE), given a certain resistance we could consume up to 14 amps times 12 volts or 168 watts. Since no work is being done, this would all be dissipated as heat. I don't think there's any question that a 150 watt light bulb can smoke brake fluid (ever drip brake fluid on an incandescent work light?)

Since the current path that causes the fire is from a powered (hot) wire to ground, the normal current draw of the expected load (the unit) is irrelevant.

Why this circuit was not fed from a smaller fuse is a question for a Ford design engineer.

If the actual current required at this input to the unit is (and this is a total guess) less than an amp and we can limit the available current with a fusible link to an amp then the power available before the fusible link melts is 1x12 or 12 watts. That’s more like a couple of night lights. This is much less likely to cause a fire.

Of course when the link opens the circuit your speed control doesn’t work but by then it’s your problem, not Ford’s.

[tdub]

i just baught my 97 tc is there a website i can go to and run my vin to c if the repair was done or not?

[BillyBob TC]

We had a fatal fire yesterday downtown. How much you want to bet it was the recall never completed! The guy bailed his 92 Crown Vic, which travelled another 250 feet and hit a retainer wall on interstate 91 here in Springfield. Unfortunately he was on fire as he jumped out, 90% burned and died enroute to Baystate hospital.
Can these fires start while driving/using cruise control? Most Ive seen have been stationary, like in a garage overnight.....Please FIND a way to check your recall status!

[tdub]

man anyone know of a way i can check it my recall has been?

[Dereck]

man anyone know of a way i can check it my recall has been?

Hi Tdub

Phone your local dealer with your VIN and they can tell you, or pop your hood and see if you have the extra wiring on your brake pressure switch shown in This Tech Tip (http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00246.html)

Regards

Dereck

[tdub]

thank u

[rmdean00]

good info!!

[myk1nd0fc4r]

Is Ford still fixing the recall issue or is it too late

[no0c]

Is Ford still fixing the recall issue or is it too late

One way to know for sure.

Pick up the phone and call your dealer with your VIN in hand.