Collision repair and halogen retrofit kit

[Philip]

Well, today marks three weeks exactly that my 1998 Mark has been in the body shop. It was not that serious, just a fender bender, but the driver's side headlight was destroyed in the altercation. No big shock here, the high-intensity lamp is no longer available and State Farm is perfectly content to replace both front lamps with the halogen retrofit kit that is newly available.

Problem is: we've been waiting three weeks for the damned parts and the rental coverage is due to run out in a few days (and that's with a cheap rental!) I had my adjuster contact the shop foreman to get a heads-up on the status of the parts. As of Tuesday afternoon, everything was supposed to be in by the next day and the car ready by Friday. We will see....(laughing, but very nervously laughing...)

I'll be reporting in with my impression of the new halogen lighting for the Gen II Mark as soon as I have the car back in my hands. One thing I've noticed with the rental, the lighting distance is greater than what my HID was, but of course not as intense at closer range. This could be an aiming issue more than anything, but I'll soon be finding out for myself on the car that was HID, right? Lol...

After the adjusted called me back the other day, we both came to the conclusion that obtaining crash parts for a vintage Ferrari would be no more difficult than obtaining parts for a niche-market Ford product of ten years...lol! I've requested the ballasts and one good headlamp be saved for me, the shop agreed to it, and they'll be on an auction site by December...I might as well get something out of this experience besides the co-payment on a rental car, right?

[Philip]

OK, got the car back yesterday and they did a sweet job on the repairs. They blended the entire front end including the hood, so even though the actual damage area was small, the front of the car is new. I'm surprised they did this with a non-metallic color, but the effect is that there is no difference between new paint and original paint.

The headlights are gorgeous, sparkling like jewelry and everything works as it is supposed to with no message center errors. It seems weird to see halogen light from this car, but I will adjust to it, especially when it only costs a ten-spot to replace a bulb down the road...lol!

I did not get out with it last night to rate real-world performance of the halogen kit, but tonight I have to be somewhere that will require night driving, both on 1-95 and a dimly-lit neighborhood.

They did leave the ballast system intact, just disconnected and tied off the harnesses for it, this does leave me the possibility of restoring the HID if the things are ever available again and is of interest to a collector, I suppose.

One thing of peculiar interest: I would have thought that the flash-to-pass would have been corrected to the low-beam bulbs with the new kit, but apparently there was no provision made for that in the new lighting control module. Still uses the high-beams for flash-to-pass.

More later, and I'll try to get a photo up for anyone who doesn't remember what these cars looked like when they were new and not chipped up in the front :)

[DaKat]

New headlights make a world of difference, don't they?

[JP]

If the halogens disappoint, try some HIRs. ;)

[Tony T]

Flash to pass is supposed to be on the Hi beam, at least on the VII it is. How would you flash to pass at night when LO beams are allready on. :)

[Philip]

Kat, yes they do :) Add to that, the entire front clip and hood are refinished and have no stone chips yet, it really looks like a new vehicle.

Tony, my bad...lol! Somewhere in the back of my mind (and that's a dusty place, obviously) I thought the flash to pass on this car was reversed because of the HID system.

So, what I can see is that there is a farther reach of the halogen low beams, of course it is a different color and the reflective coating on highway markings doesn't pop like it did with the HID. They throw more light in general than my old HID system did. The high beams on these style lights were always wicked, no change there :) Overall, I'm happy with the whole thing and I think I mentioned somewhere in a different thread about this, if I had lost a HID capsule or a ballast, my budget would have taken a major hit just to drive at night, so everything happens for a reason, right?

FYI, it took a major collision repair center THREE WEEKS to obtain the light kit, front panel and one chrome headlamp eyebrow. I bet I'm running the first set in existence...lol!

[luxuryrules]

Given the positive review, I'd be curious to see how that setup reacts to HIRs.

[DaKat]

Not quite the same, but we should have a Gen I HIR tech article (hopefully) in the near future. ;)

Edit 081908: article can be found here: http://www.lincolnsonline.com/tech/00248.html

[Philip]

Finally got a chance to snap some pictures of the halogen lights when the car was clean, not the best shooting conditions, but you can get the general idea.

The close up of the inner reflector shows the only cosmetic difference between the halogens and the HIDs: the HID capsules are so long that the reflector had to sit back further, the halogens are comparatively small bulbs and they moved the reflectors forward for that I guess. Also, no "9005" marking embedded in the lens like the HIDs, but still say Sylvania 97MK on the sides like the HID housings did.

I still do not get why Ford and Sylvania did not just make a new batch of HID capsules, it would seem that the bucks spent to redesign the inside of the housings not to mention the updated lighting control module and wiring harnesses would have been greater than just making the bulbs again. But my car is repaired, the light is stong, it looks new and the replacement bulbs are CHEAP to buy if necessary. I'm quite satisfied, and I no longer worry about autolamp and the wipers flicking the HID capsules on and off too frequently, so what if I have to buy a $10 low beam bulb in a couple of years...lol! :)

[DaKat]

Looks good!

[Philip]

Looks good!

Thanks! We had to wait long enough, lol. Of course, if I'd been more attentive the day of the crash, none of this would have been necessary...heh!

[GreenHornet]

As another recent convert to the halogen light kit I also am a firm believer that the halogen conversion kit is a great alternative to the factory HIDS. Yea it's not as bright, but two halogens beat one HID. It was an easy kit to install at 1 1/2 hrs and looks great. I ordered mine from Five Star Ford, received a great price and had them sitting at the front door in less than a week! A shout out for EXCELLANT customer service goes out to Max Zuckerburg at Five Star. The one issue I had after the installation was resolved quickly by a call to Max. The new control module did not recognize the ignition keys and the keys had to be reprogrammed. No problems whatsoever since. I would certainly recommend the conversion kit and Five Star Ford to anyone facing the same problem with thier HID lamps.

[Go Fast Get Tickets]

Not quite the same, but we should have a Gen I HIR tech article (hopefully) in the near future. ;)

I have done the HIR w/relayed harness swap on my 93. Also sprung for the module so all 4 lights are on for high beams. Way better than the halogens, and they really light up the roadside critters deer are thick around here. Once I pony up for new housings all will be right.

Phillip - car looks great! Welcome to the land of cheap headlights!

[Philip]

I have done the HIR w/relayed harness swap on my 93. Also sprung for the module so all 4 lights are on for high beams. Way better than the halogens, and they really light up the roadside critters deer are thick around here. Once I pony up for new housings all will be right.

Phillip - car looks great! Welcome to the land of cheap headlights!

Gracias! She's holding up for a ten year old daily driver :)

[Philip]

Finally got a chance to snap some pictures of the halogen lights when the car was clean, not the best shooting conditions, but you can get the general idea.

The close up of the inner reflector shows the only cosmetic difference between the halogens and the HIDs: the HID capsules are so long that the reflector had to sit back further, the halogens are comparatively small bulbs and they moved the reflectors forward for that I guess. Also, no "9005" marking embedded in the lens like the HIDs, but still say Sylvania 97MK on the sides like the HID housings did.

I still do not get why Ford and Sylvania did not just make a new batch of HID capsules, it would seem that the bucks spent to redesign the inside of the housings not to mention the updated lighting control module and wiring harnesses would have been greater than just making the bulbs again. But my car is repaired, the light is stong, it looks new and the replacement bulbs are CHEAP to buy if necessary. I'm quite satisfied, and I no longer worry about autolamp and the wipers flicking the HID capsules on and off too frequently, so what if I have to buy a $10 low beam bulb in a couple of years...lol! :)

With the continuing debate about what to do about replacement headlamps, I thought it made a little sense to bring this thread to the present. At least you know that the Ford halogens look exactly the same and there are no wiring/message center hassles. You'll have to scroll up to the December 06 posting on this to see the pictures.

[jamies98lsc]

now that you have new housings with a standard bulb in them you could easily buy an aftermarket hid kit and plug and play for under 100 bucks!

[Philip]

now that you have new housings with a standard bulb in them you could easily buy an aftermarket hid kit and plug and play for under 100 bucks!

True, but if it's brand new and not broken I tend to leave it alone....lol! :)

Isn't long term durability and no message center errors worth something too?

[luxuryrules]

now that you have new housings with a standard bulb in them you could easily buy an aftermarket hid kit and plug and play for under 100 bucks!

You're pushing HID conversion kits real hardcore... why?

[jamies98lsc]

is there a law saying i cant???? i'm not pushing anything, i simply stated that the new 2nd gen housings have a regular bulb inside them now, so the aftermarket hids fit right in, unlike the factory hid bulbs with the big stupid base on them. i dont push hid's, but after owning so many marks i would never allow another incandescent bulb in my car, but if you guys like candle light more power to you thats all im saying. as far as pushing hid's who are you to question what i talk about anyway? people ask for lighting solutions, i along with many others have found one and very cheap, all i do is pass along info, last time i checked thats what these boards were for, helping one another out.

[luxuryrules]

is there a law saying i cant????

As a matter of fact, there is. HID conversion kits are not DOT legal.

Not that I am saying you shouldn't, I was just curious why you're such an advocate. I have no problem with it, but I have noticed as of late that HID conversion kits have been coming up rather frequently. Didn't know if there was a reason why or it was just a matter of a positive end user experience that you were eager to share (and it was).

[jamies98lsc]

well my only reason for giving them so much praise is because i have owned 5 mark VIII's, my 97 lsc and my 98 lsc obviously came with them, but the two 93's i bought for my wife, the first one had crap headlights, then i managed to score a set of factory 96 hid housings and bulbs for her other 93 and after doing that i was hooked, then i picked up the black 93 i currently have and found these kits that are plug and play, and after putting one in i couldnt believe it. i didnt want a gen 1 for myself for the sake of the halogen housings but now i know how to make it work and i would take any gen 1 now. i'm just speaking highly of them because of the insane amount of light compared to stock 9005 bulbs, and for the money you cannot go wrong. and as far as the whole dot thing goes, you can mention how illegal these kits are to me all you want, i'll still use them no matter what, screw the dot, i'd rather be able to see good then risk smashing into something or someone because i cant see 5 feet in front of me with the factory headlights. if the dot doesnt want them used, then they can get off their arse's and come up with a legal solution.

[93' Blue on blue]

Didn't know if there was a reason why or it was just a matter of a positive end user experience that you were eager to share (and it was).

Yes he is NOT a seller of the kits if thats what you were implying. These after market kits are available from many online sources. This is how it all happened: a guy called Unity got a set on another forum, Turborich liked them and bought 2 sets for himself and a buddy, i liked them and got a set, wrote a little article, then Jamie saw mine in person and got a set also. The guys i mentioned all have 6000K heat range with a hint of blue and i have 4300K heat range which is the closest in color to stock, but alot whiter.

None of us can comment on their long term durability, but so far, so good. Spare bulbs are available cheaply too. The way we see things is this: its less than 100 bux to try - if it works out - great! If not, then at least we tried something new.

With regard to dazzling: The halogen gen 1 lense is heavily fluted and disperses the light well, also they have the metal diffusers to prevent the eye from seeing naked parts of the bulb. If aimed correctly, there is no issue here.

People are quick to point out the DOT legality - i doubt cutting open a housing and trimbriting it would be legal either as you have modified from stock and possibly disturbed the focal point of the lense. DOT didn't approve these cheap HID bulbs, but nor did they approve your modified housings. Heck, a yellowed, faded stock housing wouldn't pass DOT tests. Remember: DOT only approved the original housings when they were in a new condition!

Moral of my 'essay': do what works best for you and be responsible with regards to aiming and color temp. That way, we can all go about our business safely without looking like rice burners! :p

[luxuryrules]

Moral of my 'essay': do what works best for you and be responsible with regards to aiming and color temp. That way, we can all go about our business safely without looking like rice burners! :p

It's funny you mentioned the rice burners: that's exactly why I'm pointing this out. Every time headlights come up, we have a bunch of people pointing out to go on ebay and buy HID conversion bulbs. I saw the same things when I was circulating the Honda & Nissan forums Back in the Day. Difference is, we have a much higher caliber of person here than we ever did on those ricer boards, and yet I kept seeing hints of the same behavior. Guess it just rubbed me the wrong way because I hate seeing any similarly between us here and 'them' there.

The important part, like you said, is that everybody does what works for them, and in a responsible manner.

Since you guys are ready to crucify me, I want to elaborate with the reason I harp on DOT legality: a year or two back I was in your guys' shoes arguing "who cares if it's legal" with one of our moderators.
http://www.lincolnsonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52870
Since then, I had a good friend of mine get himself in a wee bit of trouble. He has a highly modified 240SX (fully adjustable suspension, Japan-spec SR20DET with short throw shifter and all the bolt on mods, etc - a fun car!). One of his mods was an HID conversion kit for his headlights. When a drunk driver ran a red light and slammed into him (fortunately, nobody was hurt but the 240 was totalled), the insurance adjuster looked over the car a little more closely since it was obviously modified. In all of about five minutes he found the ballasts for the headlights, and proceeded to deny the claims on the grounds that the car was not legal to be driven on the road. My friend even had full coverage on the car, and his own company denied his claim for the same reason.
My friend is, a year later now, still making payments on a car that he no longer has and could not receive compensation for.

While I am inclined to agree that trimbriting the housings is most likely not DOT legal either, it is not as obvious a modification as an HID conversion kit - you can really only tell if you take apart the headlights.

I am done preaching, and I don't want to seem like the bad guy here for questioning something everybody likes, but I enjoy sharing the forum with you guys and I do NOT want to see this to happen to any of you. I respect the points of view posted here and I sincerely hope you all can respect mine as well.

[jamies98lsc]

well on that note i'll let you know that since i have a garage and a shop filled with mark VIII parts for all years, i keep bare minimal insurance on my car, if someone hits it, i'll part whats left and buy another one, i wouldnt be putting any claims in with any insurance company so im not worried about the car getting wrecked. the difference between us and ricers is the lights we use are ones that we can see with, the ones they use are blue or purple, you cannot look at them at all coming at you, and basically they have the ones they do for show. i am far from a ricer and would never put anything on or near my car that has ricer appeal! i just need to see where i am going, and i did something that lets me see fine and i'm not hurting anyone by what i did so i'll be damned if i am going to change things around because its not DOT aproved. when the DOT stops me, then i'll worry about it.

[93' Blue on blue]

I (http://I) am done preaching, and I don't want to seem like the bad guy here for questioning something everybody likes, but I enjoy sharing the forum with you guys and I do NOT want to see this to happen to any of you. I respect the points of view posted here and I sincerely hope you all can respect mine as well.

Ah... no worries. :grouphug:

When i did my little article, i was careful to point out that that the kits, although effective, are not DOT legal and that the article represented what one owner did, and is there just as a guide to help others.

Insurance can be a pain and they can get you on many technicalities - if im in that situation and need to claim, i'd be sure to switch the lights back to stock (takes 5 mins) before the assessor visits.

The Mark VIII headlight situation is one of those things were you're 'darned if you do and darned if you don't' but, at least we have some more options now. I would encourage anyone and everyone to refurb their housings, but to consider the DOT rules and possible repercussions if considering that 'extra step'

[luxuryrules]

Ah... no worries. :grouphug:

When i did my little article, i was careful to point out that that the kits, although effective, are not DOT legal and that the article represented what one owner did, and is there just as a guide to help others.



Speaking of which, we don't have an article here. You've referenced "the other Lincoln site" a number of times now, what say you & Kat post a copy here as well? It'll be a good addition to the library, as the past few weeks of new Mark VIII owners here have shown.

[SignatureSeriesOwner]

Phillip, I must say. Your Mark VIII looks beautiful. Makes me want to get rid of those rick chips on my header panel now :)

Seriously, that passes for a new car in my book. A lot of people would say the same. :bow:

[93' Blue on blue]

Speaking of which, we don't have an article here. You've referenced "the other Lincoln site" a number of times now, what say you & Kat post a copy here as well? It'll be a good addition to the library, as the past few weeks of new Mark VIII owners here have shown.

Um... that wasn't me Luxuryrules. I have only made two 'another forum' references in all my posts - once in this thread to explain the whole situation and once in another thread about spark plugs - check my posts. I haven't advertised or 'pushed' the write up at all because i got fed up with the constant E mail questions.

Can i post pics here? I think so right? Wasn't sure if i had to be a paid member.

If i can then, sometime soon i'll start a thread with all the pics, then the mods can butcher and edit the info however they wish - be no good for the tech section though, IMO, because of the legality issue and the fact that you guys already have info there with regards to the MFS mod and exterior lamp message removal.

Luxuryrules: i'll talk to you via PM, see what we can put together. :)

[jamies98lsc]

i have made a few refferences about the article we have but i tried posting it here and it wont let me because it includes the " other " lincoln site in the link, it just blocks it so no one can click on it.

[93' Blue on blue]

Well, i tried to create an appropriate article and add the pics but would only let me upload 5. Guess i can't do it afterall. Nevermind. :( Unless there is another way to add more than 5 photos?

[Philip]

Phillip, I must say. Your Mark VIII looks beautiful. Makes me want to get rid of those rick chips on my header panel now :)

Seriously, that passes for a new car in my book. A lot of people would say the same. :bow:

Wow, thanks:) (blushing)

Isn't it amazing what a difference a front end repair done right makes? LOL! My car has done a lot of freeway duty and it was seriously peppered in the front from all the gravel trucks that are on I-595 here, so I was very pleased that they did a blend on the entire front end (the damage was only to the bumper cover and RF fender, they went above and beyond here.)

You know, the bit about the DOT legality on the aftermarket HID's just hit home where it hurts. The insurance end of the equation is a pretty big deal.

[SignatureSeriesOwner]

Well, i tried to create an appropriate article and add the pics but would only let me upload 5. Guess i can't do it afterall. Nevermind. :( Unless there is another way to add more than 5 photos?

I think you can only upload 5 at a time. Not sure. However, if you get a photobucket account, then you can upload your pics there, and post them here like this :
www.blahblahblah.com/whateverwillfollow

[SignatureSeriesOwner]

Wow, thanks:) (blushing)



You're quite welcome. I'd be proud to call that car my own. :)

[luxuryrules]

Um... that wasn't me Luxuryrules. I have only made two 'another forum' references in all my posts - once in this thread to explain the whole situation and once in another thread about spark plugs - check my posts. I haven't advertised or 'pushed' the write up at all because i got fed up with the constant E mail questions.



My apologies I don't mean to accuse anybody of any wrongdoing. I should've selected my words more carefully as "the other lincoln site has been referenced a bunch". I don't care who did it, just that I think we ought to have something in our own Tech library.

PM responded.

EDIT: you can do more than five pics at a time, just in multiple posts, that's all.

[PetesPonies]

Phillip, how much does that headlight conversion cost??

[Philip]

$250 State Farm deductible...LOL! That wasn't much help was it? It was necessitated by a fender bender, so it was a truthful answer.

OK, here's the skinny on the headlight kit: "7R9Z-13008A Headlamp" is the part number on my repair invoice. $729.07 is what my insurance had to pay for the part, I'm suspecting that is inflated, probably list price. I think the actual retail figure is around $500, but that will vary. I would contact Max at Five Star Ford to order it, he takes good care of us over there.

The kit includes both left and right headlight assemblies comlete with bulbs and harnesses, also an updated lighting control module is included so the lamp outage warnings work correctly.

[Warthog5]

However, if you get a photobucket account, then you can upload your pics there, and post them here like this :
www.blahblahblah.com/whateverwillfollow


With PhotoBucket, all you have to do is copy the 4th line under the pix and paste it on the forum page.

Then hit your "ENTER" key on your keyboard and paste the next pix. Hit "ENTER" key twice again and paste the next pix, etc.etc.

What this does is put a small space between each pix on the forum page. It shows better and the pix's don't run all together.

Pix's should be resized to 640 X 480 for faster loading, easy viewing and so BIG pix's don't blow your screen out.



Example:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/Customer%20Boats/100_0331.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/Customer%20Boats/100_0334.jpg

Wheel direction has since been corrected.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/Customer%20Boats/100_0329.jpg