Custom Koni Shocks for VIIs

[Nick]

My WAG wasn't too far off. The official ballpark guess from Koni was about $560 for a set of custom shocks externally adjustable for rebound. We're not sure where the final price will be because it depends on what parts are used and there is a small possibility that we can get a price break for quantity. What will happen is that they will need to find a new shock from their catalog that is close in dimensions and gut it to use as a core. They will then modify and rebuild the core to fit our application. Valving will be stock, but if you want something else, that could be done. I will note that there's enough stiffness built into the stock valving curve that you won't need more. The valving for the rear is pretty good and I, the picky snot that I am, am even happy with it. End result: single adjustable shocks for rebound specific to the VII with an external adjustment. Koni never even made these for the car. They only had shocks with an internal adjustment. If you ever tried on the fly adjustments to an internal adjustment shock, you know why I am adamant about getting an external adjustment.

So, who seriously wants a set? Expect to pay around $600, but I hope to get it closer to $500. This is the last pair of shocks you ever need to buy for a VII. It's my understanding that the lifetime warranty applies to these as well. If you ever sell the car, you can easily sell the shocks for half of what you paid and you will still have the benefit of their use. PM or e-mail me if you are serious. I'm not sure how we want to handle payment. I don't want to be the middle man, but I don't want to hit them with false promises of orders. I won't make anything off the deal. The hassle is for the love of the hobby. I would guess based on their work load that if I put in an order in July, that they would need 2-3 months to turn them around.

[Hizhonor]

My WAG wasn't too far off. The official ballpark guess from Koni was about $560 for a set of custom shocks externally adjustable for rebound. We're not sure where the final price will be because it depends on what parts are used and there is a small possibility that we can get a price break for quantity. What will happen is that they will need to find a new shock from their catalog that is close in dimensions and gut it to use as a core. They will then modify and rebuild the core to fit our application. Valving will be stock, but if you want something else, that could be done. I will note that there's enough stiffness built into the stock valving curve that you won't need more. The valving for the rear is pretty good and I, the picky snot that I am, am even happy with it. End result: single adjustable shocks for rebound specific to the VII with an external adjustment. Koni never even made these for the car. They only had shocks with an internal adjustment. If you ever tried on the fly adjustments to an internal adjustment shock, you know why I am adamant about getting an external adjustment.

So, who seriously wants a set? Expect to pay around $600, but I hope to get it closer to $500. This is the last pair of shocks you ever need to buy for a VII. It's my understanding that the lifetime warranty applies to these as well. If you ever sell the car, you can easily sell the shocks for half of what you paid and you will still have the benefit of their use. PM or e-mail me if you are serious. I'm not sure how we want to handle payment. I don't want to be the middle man, but I don't want to hit them with false promises of orders. I won't make anything off the deal. The hassle is for the love of the hobby. I would guess based on their work load that if I put in an order in July, that they would need 2-3 months to turn them around.

My car is going in for state inspection on friday. While it's up in the air, I'm going to get a good look at my Koni Adjustble shocks (rear) and struts and see if I can pull some model numbers off the case. If the day ever comes that I sell my Mark, the shocks and struts stay with ME!!! :p :cool: :eek:

[Nick]

I have the numbers somewhere for the VII application and the T-Bird/Cougar application, but it'd take me a long while to find it. I don't think Koni ever did a strut for the Bird/Cougar, at least the '87-'88 cars. The real problem with the Koni Specials (Reds) is that they were obsoleted in '96 and the shock wasn't externally adjustable. Cores are worth some money, Jack. I think I paid $50 or more for a set of used SVO struts to use as cores. Unless you bend one or severely damage it, a Koni can be rebuilt.

As an aside to all, Bilstein might be able to make us a custom adjustable shock, but Koni did custom valving for the GTC and probably developed a full set of dampers for all VIIs because of that car. They're the market leader and have been for decades.

[88LSC/SE]

I am interested. I however know little to nothing about the world of suspension and handling, deaspite that I want more from my '88 LSC? I just bought a set of gas-a-just rear KYB's understanding that they are a good choice for the LSC.

I don't know when I'd be able to afford the koni's, aside from not having the knowledge of their product or its reotutation?
Please, forgive my ignorance and teach me, I want to know more.

[Hizhonor]

I have the numbers somewhere for the VII application and the T-Bird/Cougar application, but it'd take me a long while to find it. I don't think Koni ever did a strut for the Bird/Cougar, at least the '87-'88 cars. The real problem with the Koni Specials (Reds) is that they were obsoleted in '96 and the shock wasn't externally adjustable. Cores are worth some money, Jack. I think I paid $50 or more for a set of used SVO struts to use as cores. Unless you bend one or severely damage it, a Koni can be rebuilt.

As an aside to all, Bilstein might be able to make us a custom adjustable shock, but Koni did custom valving for the GTC and probably developed a full set of dampers for all VIIs because of that car. They're the market leader and have been for decades.

Nick, mine are externally adjustable.... Struts and Shocks (I'll get a pic of the shocks as soon as it's convenient)

http://thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/Gallery/albums/chairmans-new-ride/P3010004.jpg

I'll still try and get the numbers.

[skarhed]

Thanx Nick, for the leg work. Yes, I will be stashing spare change just for these.

[Nick]

Jack,

The struts are externally adjustable, but the Koni Special shocks are all internal adjustment only for rebound. I am not aware of any Specials with external adjustment and as far as I know, only Specials were available for the VII. The Sports (Yellow) are externally adjustable and may be adjusted for rebound and sometimes bound as well.

[Nick]

I am interested. I however know little to nothing about the world of suspension and handling, deaspite that I want more from my '88 LSC? I just bought a set of gas-a-just rear KYB's understanding that they are a good choice for the LSC.

I don't know when I'd be able to afford the koni's, aside from not having the knowledge of their product or its reotutation?
Please, forgive my ignorance and teach me, I want to know more.

Out of the crop of currently available shocks, Gas-A-Justs are some of the better ones. The next step up are Bilsteins for a Thunderbird/Cougar. Unfortunately, neither are adjustable. They are both stiffer than the stock specs though.

Koni has been a world leader in dampers for decades and have been around since the '50s or earlier. Originally from Holland, they have done dampers for a wide range of applications, including heavy equipment, cars, and bridges. You'll find many race cars with their dampers. During development of the Mark VII GTC, specific valving for that car was made up by Koni at the request of either Goodyear or Roush for the revised front air springs. Since they had at one point specific parts available and since they did development work on our halo car, I'm comfortable sending work to them.

[mark007]

well i too am running mark specific konis. but with what you're talking about maybe these may be a better choice. as now the car is going in a more roadcourse direction. give me a call and tell me more about these sometime in the next few days. if it seems right i have the funds to do this now, especially since i have my car back in my hands and will be redoing the suspension soon.

[pro-five-oh]

Oh yeah, I am still interested Nick. (in case you forgot)

[Nick]

Nope, I remember who wanted a set. So far, we've got interest for 5-6 sets.

The plan is to place an order by around the end of August and I will work with Koni to see if we can get a price break for ordering multiples. It's hard until I know how many we actually want. Those that expressed interest are guys I would trust though.

[mark007]

the end of august is here. has anyone else expressed any interest nick? come on guys this may be a one time only affair.

[USMC91SE]

where can I get a set?i found these while surfing the web..will they work?

http://www.prostreetonline.com/pnsku/8740-1121.asp
http://www.prostreetonline.com/pnsku/8040-1026.asp

[Nick]

the end of august is here. has anyone else expressed any interest nick? come on guys this may be a one time only affair.

There were about 5 guys that wanted a set. I've been busy with a few things, but I'll contact those who expressed interest to confirm that they truly want a set. Once I do that, I'll contact Koni and get an exact price. Hopefully, we can get a price break. I thank everyone for their patience.

[Nick]

where can I get a set?i found these while surfing the web..will they work?

http://www.prostreetonline.com/pnsku/8740-1121.asp
http://www.prostreetonline.com/pnsku/8040-1026.asp

Mark VII specific Konis are obsolete or you have to get them custom made, which is what I will be orchestrating. The Mustang shocks are too short for the VII. You need to get an adapter bracket that holds the lower eye higher to use them in a VII or the car needs to be lowered substantially at which point the MacPherson front suspension geometry goes to hell.

[mark007]

nick any updates. im dropping my rear this week and while its out some new parts could be going in. keep us posted sir.

[Nick]

Vic,

I haven't gotten anywhere with this, but it's ready to go. I've confirmed it can be done and what needs to be done. It just needs buyers. I had wanted to do a group buy for a sales discount, but I haven't gotten to it. I'll try again if you would like. I can also forward info to you about ordering them if you can't wait. I'm sorry for the delay.

[mark007]

well im patient, and if a group buy is in the works thats cool too. but on another note, i know you've seen the gtc base thread. is there any info that would be needed to valve the konis for a stiffer spring rate from this gtc topic. maybe if these come to fruition we should wait and see what can be done to have another option for those of us who might wanna go the gtc base route or stay stock.

[Nick]

As far as the rear shocks and springs on GTC were off the shelf LSC and Koni units. i will double check with Koni. For the front struts, you can have them rebuild and revalve a set of SVO Koni struts or Mark VII struts to GTC valving. In retrospect, I wish I did it, but you live and learn. I'll just have to get another set to try. :rolleyes:

[FakeConvertible]

Great site you have here.
When you say these shocks will have stock valving I assume you mean stock Koni valving? I do not care if the shocks are adjustable but if you can get stiffer dampening for all four corners of the car I'm in!

[Nick]

Well, that is the beauty of the ability to adjust the dampers. They would be a little firmer than stock shocks but you can stiffen them up to suit your taste or to compensate for wear.

If all you want is a stiffer shock, the KYB GR-2 or Gas-A-Just or the Bilstein shocks for a Fox Thunderbird would do. The GR-2s are too stiff in rebound as compared to GR-2 struts from personal experience and the Gas-A-Justs are even stiffer. I have not tried the Bilsteins. It seems the front struts are all too soft on rebound compared to shocks that probably share valving for Thunderbird/Cougar applications simultaneously.

For the front Koni strut, you will need a Mustang SVO strut core to rebuild and re-valve to Mark VII specs or your own specs.

[LXRY YOT]

What if you gave them the original Ford and Roush part numbers for the Koni's from a GTC? Don't they have records of everything they have built?

Ford part numbers are...
Front: 8641L-1018-SP1
Rear: 8040C-1009-SP1

Roush part numbers are...
Front: JRPE-5150-121
Rear: JRPE-5150-116

Scott

[Nick]

They do have damping curves for everything they made. The valving isn't the problem; it's physically having a shock or strut for them to rebuild or custom valve for our needs. Without a body, they can't do anything. For these shocks, they would find a similar shock still in production and cut them down to fit our application and then custom valve them for us.

[LXRY YOT]

Nick,

I planned on having mine rebuilt eventually. Maybe I can cut a deal with them. They can rebuild mine and get the specs they need for the reproduction set. Is there anyone you are specifically dealing with at Koni that I can contact?

Scott

[Nick]

Scott,

They have records on the damping curves and won't need valving info. It's just that they don't have shock and strut bodies. That's what makes it difficult to obtain these. You have to start with cores to rebuild or luck out and be able to take new units and modify to suit. Note that these shocks that I am pushing are externally adjustable for rebound. The originals offered by Koni are internally adjustable only.

I'll have to dig for my contact. I'll get back to you, but feel free to send me a reminder e-mail.

Nick

[LXRY YOT]

Nick,

My originals are externally adjustable. They've got the key just like the one posted above by Hizhonor.

Scott

[mark007]

so if the cores are all they need. then couldnt someone with a set of konis send them the cores and then have those revalved and rebuilt for external adjustment?

[Nick]

Nick,

My originals are externally adjustable. They've got the key just like the one posted above by Hizhonor.

Scott

But your shocks aren't. The struts were (as pictured), but the shocks were never externally adjustable unless Mr. P. had them make a custom set.

That's what makes these shocks different and expensive from what used to be available for the VII. They are custom made for the car and will be externally adjustable for rebound. The standard Koni Red or Special shock for the VII is internally adjustable for rebound only.

You also can't take an internally adjustable shock and convert it to external adjustments. I asked hoping for an alternative, but the design is completely different.

[LXRY YOT]

But your shocks aren't. The struts were (as pictured), but the shocks were never externally adjustable unless Mr. P. had them make a custom set.

Nick,

"Koni engineers participated in the selection of the damping curves for a set of gas-pressure, externally adjustable shock absorbers." (Car and Driver 9/85)

"Koni developed special shocks for all four corners, adjustable separately for both jounce and rebound." (AutoWeek 7/29/85)

The GTC shocks sound adjustable to me based on the two articles above. They correspond to what I have on mine.

Scott

[Nick]

How the plot thickens!

I have never seen double adjustable dampers for a VII or confirmed that they were available. On all GTCs I have seen on the web, Koni Red or Special dampers were used. These are adjustable for rebound only and, as far as I am aware, also only internally adjustable for shocks. I don't have all my collected literature near me. Perhaps the early test mule had a custom set of Konis. They could have installed an insert for the strut or they could have gutted stock struts and stuffed in their parts. We will have to confirm with Koni what was done. Anything is possible on the test mule.

Here are the shock adjustment procedures: http://www.koni-na.com/adjustment.cfm. Here are the strut adjustment procedures: http://www.koni-na.com/double.cfm.

[Nick]

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z69/74RALLYE/gtc/GTCstuff004.jpg?t=1242784234

That I have never seen. I think it may have been converted to external adjustment. More digging is warranted. There is a huge difference. This is a big find.

[Hizhonor]

http://thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/Gallery/albums/chairmans-new-ride/P3010004.jpg



It's so easy ..... :)

Rebound Adjustment ProceduresExternally Adjustable. These dampers can be adjusted, literally at the turn of a knob, a technique borrowed from Formula-1 racing where KONI dampers have dominated the field for years. One can switch back and forth, in most cases in a matter of seconds, from a comfortable "touring" setting to a more firm setting for a sporty drive. By means of a knob damping forces can be altered to driving conditions or personal preferences.

REBOUND ADJUSTMENT DIRECTION

Clockwise = Softer
Counter Clockwise = Firmer

[chestnut101]

has anyone tried to get replacement GTc shocks and struts from koni yet?

[Hizhonor]

has anyone tried to get replacement GTc shocks and struts from koni yet?

Not available as new. Send them the cores and they'll rebuild them. Same for the ones I have on my car. If I want them re-conditioned, I need to take 'em off and send them to KONI.

[mark007]

Not available as new. Send them the cores and they'll rebuild them. Same for the ones I have on my car. If I want them re-conditioned, I need to take 'em off and send them to KONI.

iirc expect a 6-8week turnaround on them too.

[Hizhonor]

iirc expect a 6-8week turnaround on them too.


That is correct! ;) :cool:

[chestnut101]

Damn, where would i find cores? a svo?

[Hizhonor]

Damn, where would i find cores? a svo?


I think I read somewhere (maybe Nick can chime in) that the SVO struts are about an inch too short for the Mark VIIs. :dunno: