Diasgreement with a customer...

[LSRX101]

I'd like to toss this out for opinions. I got into a small disagreement with a customer today and feel really funny about the situation. We easily worked out a resolution and the disagreement didn't get nasty or anything like that. She feels that I did something without consulting her first, I feel like I followed standard practices. If I'm mistaken, please let me know.

A customer brought me her car with a short list of things to do and check. One of the issues was a burned out headlamp, a standard H7 bulb. I sourced and installed BOTH bulbs.
I've always done this because experience has shown me that the other bulb will usually burn out soon after. I do the same with most paired light bulbs and many other items (wipers, shocks, tires, brakes!!, etc) and always considered it accepted practice.

When I told her this, she balked and insisted she didn't ok replacing both and I should have called her first.
She insisted that I reinstall her old bulb and remove the second one from the bill. ultimately, I just left the new bulb in place and made the $12 adjustment on her bill.
As it turns out, she had recently paid someone to replace the other bulb. She couldn't understand replacing both bulbs when one still worked.
She didn't mention the previous replacement. On the other hand, it never occurred to me to mention that I would replace both.

$12 just isn't worth losing a customer over, but then, do I really want a customer who will become indignant over a small issue like this? She stopped just short of accusing me of making an unauthorized repair. I actually felt like I had done something wrong when it was over with.

What do y'all think?

[Drake_tr7]

IMO you did nothing wrong :cool:

In my experience though, folks will burn an extra $10 worth of gas to save fifty cents and be proud of themselves when they get done. :rolleyes:

[CartierBear]

I think you prolly should have called or made it known beforehand. In this economy in the shape its in and people watching their pennies 12 dollars is alot. to spend on "it could." Then again you are in that field that is untrusted and that has a history of gouging and taking advantage of customers so you start off on a bad foot.
Though to be honest you did do an unauthorized repair she authorized you for one headlight and you did two. but i know where you are coming from i replace things in pairs jsut so the brightness and colors are the same. you jsut may need to tell or suggest to customers.

[yakdude01]

Hmm, I can see this from both sides.

On the one side, I agree with you Steve, you should replace the bulbs in pairs, because you're right, most likely the other one is going to fail soon....and this solves that.

On the flip side, the customer specified the failed bulb and only the failed bulb. While you were certainly being pro-active, you missed the "contact the customer" step. If you had, you'd have found out that she recently had that one replaced and wouldn't have had this issue.

Glad it didn't turn into a big deal, because it isn't. But when I'm dealing with a shop, and I specify what's to be done, and they go beyond that (and it adds to the bill) without consulting me....then I'm with your customer, I have an issue. Even if it is only $12.

Back in the early 90's, I had an auto technician as a housemate. I had 2 cars then so I left my 79 Ford LTD with him (and the keys) incase he needed to move it for snow plowing, etc. When I got back a week later, I found he did some "unauthorized" work. The odometer and gas gauge were not working and he determined that it was the dash cluster that was bad, and replaced it, at a cost of $75, not including his time. He thought I'd be all excited to have a working odometer and especially a working gas gauge, and I was happy to see that. But I didn't tell him to do those repairs, and wasn't expecting a bill for the services I didn't ask for. He ended up eating the $75. If he had called me, I'd have happily said yes and then paid him for it, but by just doing it....I decided it was a gift. ;) He wasn't happy, but he understood and agreed he should have called.

Moral of the story is, when in doubt, unless you have a "can spend up to XXX limit already approved", call the customer and get approval. Makes everyone happy.

[SignatureSeriesOwner]

"Two bulbs come in the box, if I open it, I have to install both, company rules"


:D


No, it's really nothing to lose sleep over.


You could have called, and it would have never been an issue.
BUT
She, could have told you one was recently replaced, you wouldn't have needed to call here, and there never would have been a issue.

Just a two way misunderstanding. Not a big deal. Most people wouldn't have refunded the money. At least you were kind enough to do that.


Fuggetaboutit! ;)

[Dereck]

.....I just left the new bulb in place and made the $12 adjustment on her bill.


What do y'all think?

Hi LSRX101

I think 12 bucks for an H7 is a bit steep no wonder she complained :D

Take care

Dereck

[gadget73]

I'd have replaced both and put the old one in the glovebox as a spare. I doubt I'd have contacted the customer about something as small as light bulb replacement. If there was an issue about it, I'd probably offer to knock half the cost of the bulb off or something, but I've never felt there to be good reason for replacing "paired" items individually. In the long run it wastes money, as your customer found out. She recently paid to have the other bulb replaced, and the one she left alone burned out.

[luxuryrules]

Interesting question. I'd have called and recommended it, just like I did when I was working the counter and people came in to buy one headlight, or one shock, or one brake rotor, etc. About 50% of people will accept your recommendation, and the other 50% will assume you were trying to upsell them, say no, and congratulate themselves for saving money. And when those 50% come back three weeks later for the other bulb/brake/shock/etc, I can smile knowing that I did all I can.

Remember, the customer is not always right, but always do what the customer asks.

[Dereck]

....one brake rotor, etc.

Hi Luxuryrules

You are kidding right?

Regards

Dereck

[no0c]

Hi LSRX101

I think 12 bucks for an H7 is a bit steep no wonder she complained :D

Take care

Dereck

Maybe Dereck has a point ;)

Tough call for sure. The good thing is she will be back, because you made her happy and she thinks she won the battle. Little does she know that wars are made of battles and in the end you will win the war or at least get a stalemate.

Just remember the incident (know you won't have any problem with that) when she comes back for more service work. You can get that $12 back by just adding a buck here and there to the price of the parts or make your labor rate a little higher on that day, just for her. ;)

[Steve Moran]

I tell customers they should replace them in pairs.
Rotors, calipers, wipers, headlights, etc, etc, etc.
I still get customers that want one side of a pair of brake pads. I let them know that different brands and qualities of pads have different compositions and it is imperative to install them as axle sets.
Wiper blades: I just say they are 4 feet apart and wipe the same windshield so when one goes the other is not far behind.
Headlight bulbs are the same way.
I get shot down as was a previous comment, but about 50 % of the time they come back, the other 50% want to save face and buy it someplace else. I am 99% sure they had to just by past experience.

[SignatureSeriesOwner]

the other 50% want to save face and buy it someplace else.

+1....


We've all been there over something. :D

[LSRX101]

Wiper blades: I just say they are 4 feet apart and wipe the same windshield so when one goes the other is not far behind.

On my cars the wiper blade on the driver side always fails in about 10 minutes after installation and the passenger side never goes bad.:D

[LSRX101]

I'd have replaced both and put the old one in the glovebox as a spare. I doubt I'd have contacted the customer about something as small as light bulb replacement. If there was an issue about it, I'd probably offer to knock half the cost of the bulb off or something, but I've never felt there to be good reason for replacing "paired" items individually. In the long run it wastes money, as your customer found out. She recently paid to have the other bulb replaced, and the one she left alone burned out.

That's the way I've always done it. I've never had a customer bat an eye. The other "good" bulb goes into the glovebox, like you mentioned.
This is the first time I've had anyone object, and she was really pissed!
Takes all kinds, I guess.

Thanks for the input guys.

[Drake_tr7]

That's the way I've always done it. I've never had a customer bat an eye. The other "good" bulb goes into the glovebox, like you mentioned.
This is the first time I've had anyone object, and she was really pissed!
Takes all kinds, I guess.

Thanks for the input guys.

I'm reading this and looked back at your icon lil penguin buddy ! :rofl:

[LSRX101]

I'm reading this and looked back at your icon lil penguin buddy ! :rofl:

Glad ya like him. I do too.:)
He's kind of a mascot on the AC forum. R12, hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica, penguins ... You know the story.

[luxuryrules]

Hi Luxuryrules

You are kidding right?

Regards

Dereck

I wish I was, mate. I wish I was.

I had a strut for a 92 Cavalier that was getting replaced because it was physically broken. It was the original with 180k miles on it. And no, they didn't want the pair, just to replace the one that had fallen apart. Yes, sir, you know best, sir :)

[gadget73]

yeah I've seen people try and do that. One strut, one ball joint, one of the two control arm bushings, one motor mount, etc. It almost never works, the other one is doomed to fail in short order most of the time. I won't even do it on my boat. It has two identical engines in it. What I do to one for PM or repair purposes, I do to the other. I tried replacing one water pump once. The next day the other one started making noise. Tried doing one caliper on my Towncar, 2 days later the other one hung up. I've quit trying to be cheap, and I've found that in the process not only have I saved money, I've had a lot less frustration and a whole lot less unexpected wrench time on things.

[WhiskeyRiver]

And then, there's ME.

I expect that when I put my car in the shop that you'll treat it just like it was your car. If it was yours, parked in your driveway, with your family driving it or riding in it, what would YOU do? Whatever that is, that's what I want.

Every once in a while I get more than I'd expected when I tell a shop that but for the most part I get my car back fixed right without extra parts I wouldn't expect.

So I'd be pleased with the bulbs.

I gotta tell ya though.... I put my '94 TC in the local Lincoln dealer's shop a while back for upper/lower ball joints.

I looked the guy right in the eye and said "Treat this car like it belongs to you. When you work on the front end, I want anything that's worn at all replaced."

I got the car back with new ball joints. It drove a lot better but not as good as it did when I bought it.

10,000 miles later and the upper A-frame bushings are shot.

I won't be returning to that shop. I bought a 2003 TC car there. I won't be buying another one there.

Conversely, the 2003 TC is in the local FORD dealer's shop (25 miles closer to home) right now for some minor annoyances, the worst of which is a noise under the dash at highway speed. That was last Thursday and they've still got it. The service manager calls me every day to report on it. He's not going to give it back until it's fixed and he's sure of it.

I don't care if he keeps it until next week as long as it comes back fixed.

So here's a vote for the mechanic. Good job dude!

WR

[LSRX101]

yeah I've seen people try and do that. One strut, one ball joint, one of the two control arm bushings, one motor mount, etc. It almost never works, the other one is doomed to fail in short order most of the time.

Yep, I see it all the time.
The usual statement is "Well, it's just a work car...".
Wait a minute! My "work car" has to get me there and back reliably every single day, regardless of the weather, mileage, or level of maintenance. I can't afford for my "work car"to break down. Why would I cheap out on a repair to that particular vehicle?
The next best is, "It's just a second car that my son/daughter drives. Huh! It's ok if it leaves them stranded or causes an accident because you didn't do the proper repair?

I was guilty of things like that when I was much younger, I learned it from my Dad. He's a rather frugal fellow and rarely purchased a new part for one of his cars. Junk yard steering parts and plug wires, anyone?:rolleyes: Once I learned better, I refused to fix his cars that way. He hated it for quite a while, but he has since gotten over his fear of spending money for parts. He still cringes, but...:D

I won't even do it on my boat. It has two identical engines in it. What I do to one for PM or repair purposes, I do to the other. I tried replacing one water pump once. The next day the other one started making noise. Tried doing one caliper on my Towncar, 2 days later the other one hung up. I've quit trying to be cheap, and I've found that in the process not only have I saved money, I've had a lot less frustration and a whole lot less unexpected wrench time on things.

I like the way you think Gadget. I feel the same way.
When my car needs fixin', I piss and moan all the way to the parts store. I always feel better, though, once I replace the brake hoses along with the bad calipers, the voltage regulator along with the failed alternator (today actually), the distributor along with the failed TFI module, all of the hoses along with the leaky radiator, etc. It's funny how I rarely even need to look at those systems again for a long time.

[Shrewsbury]

This discussion reminds me of advice I read once (on here) concerning the replacement of the valve stem seals in my 2 Panthers. Someone suggested that the problem is with the right (passenger's side) head -due to the hot gases from the PCV valve - so those were all that needed replaced.

Dereck, was that your advice?

Shrewsbury runs and :hide:

[LSRX101]

And then, there's ME.

I expect that when I put my car in the shop that you'll treat it just like it was your car. If it was yours, parked in your driveway, with your family driving it or riding in it, what would YOU do? Whatever that is, that's what I want.

Every once in a while I get more than I'd expected when I tell a shop that but for the most part I get my car back fixed right without extra parts I wouldn't expect.

So I'd be pleased with the bulbs.

I gotta tell ya though.... I put my '94 TC in the local Lincoln dealer's shop a while back for upper/lower ball joints.

I looked the guy right in the eye and said "Treat this car like it belongs to you. When you work on the front end, I want anything that's worn at all replaced."

I got the car back with new ball joints. It drove a lot better but not as good as it did when I bought it.

10,000 miles later and the upper A-frame bushings are shot.

I won't be returning to that shop. I bought a 2003 TC car there. I won't be buying another one there.

Conversely, the 2003 TC is in the local FORD dealer's shop (25 miles closer to home) right now for some minor annoyances, the worst of which is a noise under the dash at highway speed. That was last Thursday and they've still got it. The service manager calls me every day to report on it. He's not going to give it back until it's fixed and he's sure of it.

I don't care if he keeps it until next week as long as it comes back fixed.

So here's a vote for the mechanic. Good job dude!

WR

WR, I'd be proud to work on your car any time. Not because I could make money from repairing your cars, but because you want your car fixed "right" with no questions asked, but also no problems after the fact. I'd likely treat it better than my own car, but that's a subject for another time.;)
Unfortunately, there are many folks in the business that would take advantage of that and use your wallet as an ATM, or try to. It's not a large percentage, but they are the ones who draw the most attention.
My best customers feel much like you do. They trust me and my judgment on repairs and I make sure I don't do anything to betray that trust.
While I don't expect all of my customers to fully have that attitude, something closer would be nice. :)

Cut the Tech some slack about the 10K later failed bushings, though. They may not have seemed/appeared/felt worn at the time. Once they start, they self destruct fairly fast. 10K is quite a few miles on an older car when rubber is involved. Many Techs may have missed that one if it was just starting.

[OneWayStreet]

Been there, done this.

If you are "recommending" a part or service, or replacing more than what the customer asked for, always call the customer.

However, you did the right thing in taking $12 off the invoice, you probably gained a good customer for life.

Remember, not every motor vehicle owner is an enthusiast like us. :)

[hrmwrm]

one rotor? done it. on a mid 90's 4x4 dodge 1 ton dually. the caliper had a seized piston and wore the inner pad into the rotor. other side was fine. but these aren't the remove wheel/caliper off/on type rotors. these are on the backside of the hub and require removal of the axle and hub and the wheel studs to remove. a lot of work if it's not necessary.
but, yes, some things are best replaced in pairs, like shocks/struts. but bulbs, i always just replace the burnt one. there's no rhyme or reason to the life of a bulb. i've replaced bulbs twice on one side and never on the other. shit happens. unless they are in a vehicle where they are exceptionally hard to get at, there is no reason to replace a working one. but peoples ideas differ.
did you charge extra time for replacing the second one? it's good you came to an agreeable solution with your customer. that's what's important in the end.

[Kit Sullivan]

Typical sistuation when it comes to customers vs sales technical people.

I hate to say, but the first mistake was yours and yours alone, even though it is quite usual.
You assumed she would want you to do what was right based on YOUR knowledge, not HER knowledge.
Once you made a decision for her without her direct consultation, she forgot about your expertise, and instead could not stop thinking about her seeming total loss of control in how her money was being spent by you. Nevermind the fact that what you did was actually ethical correct and unanimously accepted by most as being the right decision.

The truth is, you should have called her first before doing ANYTHING extra...CYA, you know?

[cason1]

Typical sistuation when it comes to customers vs sales technical people.

I hate to say, but the first mistake was yours and yours alone, even though it is quite usual.
You assumed she would want you to do what was right based on YOUR knowledge, not HER knowledge.
Once you made a decision for her without her direct consultation, she forgot about your expertise, and instead could not stop thinking about her seeming total loss of control in how her money was being spent by you. Nevermind the fact that what you did was actually ethical correct and unanimously accepted by most as being the right decision.

The truth is, you should have called her first before doing ANYTHING extra...CYA, you know?


Agree completely. Every bulb, even down to the $2 peanut bulbs, I have the service writer contact the customer to get approval before I'll put the new one in. I will go ahead and pull the bulb to make sure there are no other problems such as wiring but it sits apart until I have the green light from the customer. Of course there is still going to be the customer that declines both matching bulbs when one is out only to bring the car back a month or two later bitching that the light bulb you just put in is blown again. Pull the car in to verify only to find that it is the opposite light you suggested replacing last time that was declined. They feel pretty stupid at that point.