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  #1  
Old February 8th, 2018, 07:52 PM
Dave Wilson Dave Wilson is offline
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91 Lincoln lsc engine upgrades

I am currently installing Gt40p heads and upper and lower intake. I want to do a cam swap but not sure which one yet. Not sure if I need to do maf conversion. Lots of info on this site and i am reading it but if any one can help me with details I am interested.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 12:49 AM
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Cool 5.0l mods

Yeah, do plenty of research. Once you decide to do a cam swap, things can get very dicey unlesss you convert to mass air. There are a few cams that will work with speed density when modifying the upper end but very limited. Do you have the "p" specific headers? I think the gt40p engines may have had an OEM Cam that was higher on torque and less on higher rpm, but I am not positive.

One of the members here, Bluegrass, is very knowledgeable on sd with mods, check his posts.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Wilson View Post
I am currently installing Gt40p heads and upper and lower intake. I want to do a cam swap but not sure which one yet. Not sure if I need to do maf conversion. Lots of info on this site and i am reading it but if any one can help me with details I am interested.
Like mentioned, there are very few cams that will not require a mass air conversion. Any cam that will actually make a big difference will need Mass Air.
I have Mark VII specific instructions that I can email to you. either in this thread or through private messages give me your email and I'll send them.

Since you're talking a cam swap, and thinking about making more power, I have to suggest that you rethink your choice of heads.
A pair of AFR 165s will make significantly more power than those P's. The difference becomes even greater once bigger cams are added to the mix.
I understand budgets, and on the surface dropping in some GT40P heads seems cheap. But for the same amount of work and same price for gaskets, you get more power and torque for your money.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 05:05 PM
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I've dealt with engines running the stock HO cam, Explorer intakes, and GT40P heads controlled by a Mark VII ECM before and they are prone to running lean. The usual tell is it will ping a lot. Just beware that even with relatively minor changes you might be needing mass air or a tune.

Which is actually worth mentioning. There is actually no reason to change to mass air if you're willing to have the thing tuned. The only real advantage mass air has is that it is more tolerant of engine changes before you have to tune things. Even with that, changing the cam is likely to make it not be ideal even if it runs basically fine. I've been to that movie. My Towncar ran OK un-tuned, but its much better now with the MAF and fuel curve tuned in better. I was also running out of injector with the stock ones, so I now have larger ones that aren't pushing the duty cycle limits.
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Old February 12th, 2018, 09:39 AM
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I have decided to go mass air. Any ideas on best way to convert. I have talked to lmr. They are not sure if 86-88 mustang conversion is the same
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Old February 12th, 2018, 10:12 AM
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Cool Speed density to mass air

There are many Mark VII owners who have done the swap. Although I have one that has been converted, I didn't do it myself so someone else should jump in here.
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Old February 12th, 2018, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Wilson View Post
I have decided to go mass air. Any ideas on best way to convert. I have talked to lmr. They are not sure if 86-88 mustang conversion is the same
Dave, in my earlier reply I mentioned I have Mark VII specific Mass Air instructions.
Either post up here or send me a message with your email address and I'll send them to you.

The "kits" are the same as you need the harness for the meter and another ECM. It's the pin swaps and the wire splices that are different from the Mustang.
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  #8  
Old February 12th, 2018, 01:11 PM
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Cool SD to MA swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90LSC View Post
Dave, in my earlier reply I mentioned I have Mark VII specific Mass Air instructions.
Either post up here or send me a message with your email address and I'll send them to you.

The "kits" are the same as you need the harness for the meter and another ECM. It's the pin swaps and the wire splices that are different from the Mustang.
There you go!
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87 Base 108k White, code 9L
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  #9  
Old February 12th, 2018, 01:33 PM
Dave Wilson Dave Wilson is offline
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Sorry. I sent email this morning. Iím not familiar with all the features on this site yet. You all are very helpful. I fixed air suspension a while back and I love the ride, I just want more power. I have done posi and 373 hears a couple months ago. Lots of fun
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  #10  
Old February 12th, 2018, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Wilson View Post
Sorry. I sent email this morning. Iím not familiar with all the features on this site yet. You all are very helpful. I fixed air suspension a while back and I love the ride, I just want more power. I have done posi and 373 hears a couple months ago. Lots of fun
Sent a email, and in retrospect I see that my response came across much more harsh than intended. Sorry about that.
Don't hesitate to continue to ask questions.
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  #11  
Old February 12th, 2018, 08:45 PM
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I've never done it on a Mark VII, but I did pull the ECM out of one once. I do not envy you this task. I converted my Towncar, which is the same process but my ECM connector is not in such an ignorant location. No small part of why my Mark VII is stock is that i don't want to mess around up in that kickpanel area.
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Old February 12th, 2018, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
I've never done it on a Mark VII, but I did pull the ECM out of one once. I do not envy you this task. I converted my Towncar, which is the same process but my ECM connector is not in such an ignorant location. No small part of why my Mark VII is stock is that i don't want to mess around up in that kickpanel area.
It is a huge pain in the ass. The passenger seat should be removed to make room. Does not HAVE to, just should.
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  #13  
Old February 13th, 2018, 04:13 PM
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So I guess Iím buying heads now. Are the afr 165 the best bang for the buck. I would assume 58 cc. Stud mounts for roller rockers. While I do that I guess Iíll go to an electric fan. I will research other post for fans unless someone has that on hand
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Old February 13th, 2018, 07:28 PM
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A friend of mine is a big fan of the dual e-fan unit on Ford Contours. The low speed has a resistor involved so it doesn't have the nasty startup surge, high speed you just bypass the resistor. THe Mark VIII fan was a popular option for a while but the startup load is significant. You really want more alternator to deal with that.

Honestly the best fan upgrade I ever did was removing the Mark VIII fan on my Towncar and putting the stock clutch back on it. The Mark VII has a new stock type clutch and fan, it works quite well.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 08:04 PM
Dave Wilson Dave Wilson is offline
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Also if I use afr heads should I use gt40 upper and lower intake?
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Old February 13th, 2018, 09:58 PM
W.V. Kelly W.V. Kelly is offline
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AFR heads deserve more air than the stock intake can provide. Stock will work and will still allow the AFR heads to get 50 HP more. "Old Blue" is still running speed density (very nicely, thank you) with AFR 165s and GT-40 tubular intake with about 65mm throttle body (and about 9.5 CR) on 87 octane.

Regarding fans, I tend to agree with Gadget; we had the Flex-A-Lite electric one on for several years. Though it gave us 5 more RWHP it was fussy and we replaced it with their clutchless fixed unit and haven't turned back. Do what works for you.
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Old February 14th, 2018, 03:19 PM
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I suggest AFR 165;s and 185's because you can get them in Emissions legal and pedestal mount.
I also know from personal experience that bolting on a set of AFRs is like bolting on a set of Ford heads.

To give you an idea of how capable the 165's are, watch the (at least) first portion of this video where they are comparing AFR heads on a 410W.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1w8OU_8-JM
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Old February 14th, 2018, 03:28 PM
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About intakes...
If you are not planning on some high winding engine with a camshaft that is too big for a street car, the Cobra/Explorer/GT40 CANNOT be beat for a street car. Send the lower off to Tom Moss to be massaged to match your heads and it makes even more power.
They can be found for cheap, and made to look good cheaply as well.
If you MUST get an aftermarket intake, buy the Edelbrock RPM II.


About fans...As long as you don't have cooling issues due to cubes or boost, I'd stick with the stock fan.
IF the time comes to do electric, I'd go with Contour fans and either a Derale or Ron Francis controller.
Electric fans pretty much require an alternator upgrade.
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4R70W transmission, 3.73s
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I want more power!

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Old February 15th, 2018, 09:37 AM
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Thanks for your insight and knowledge that you are sharing. I am probably making a mistake but I am going to use my ht 40 heads. They were free and I can do springs and seals really cheap. I am going to change to mass air. I would love some opinions on cam. Thanks

Sent from my iPhone
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Old February 15th, 2018, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Wilson View Post
Thanks for your insight and knowledge that you are sharing. I am probably making a mistake but I am going to use my ht 40 heads. They were free and I can do springs and seals really cheap. I am going to change to mass air. I would love some opinions on cam. Thanks

Sent from my iPhone
Not a mistake at all.
Do the mass air swap well before the engine work.
I suggest you grab some 24 lb and matching meter since you are planning the better heads and intake...and cam.

About cams....Be realistic.
Don't buy a 3000 to 6500 RPM cam to stuff into an engine that will fall off at 5800 RPM or sooner.
Also don't forget that too big of a cam without a higher stall torque converter will make your car a dog around town.
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4R70W transmission, 3.73s
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I want more power!

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Old February 15th, 2018, 09:57 PM
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indeed, it doesn't need to be a high rpm screamer, especially if you aren't changing the torque converter and rear gears to go with it. My XE-258 in the Towncar with a stock converter does fine, but its probably more of what people would say belongs in a pickup truck than a car. For a car pushing 2 tons with a low stall converter and not terribly short gears it works out though.

Also, the AOD will wide open shift about 4800 in stock form. If you don't do something about that, any power above that point is just wasted.
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  #22  
Old February 15th, 2018, 10:02 PM
Dave Wilson Dave Wilson is offline
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I Agree. I was trying to guess at c/r to get the right cam. Can I reuse my lifters I need to decide on cam so I can get springs for heads
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Old February 16th, 2018, 10:18 AM
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I found my conversion parts from Socal5.0headquarters on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...p2045573.m1684

If you are looking for a ECU and harness they have that as well. I also used the instructions from 90LSC - I didnt remove the seat, its a bi*ch but, can be done and Im a big guy.
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Old February 16th, 2018, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Luckydog View Post
I found my conversion parts from Socal5.0headquarters on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...p2045573.m1684

If you are looking for a ECU and harness they have that as well. I also used the instructions from 90LSC - I didnt remove the seat, its a bi*ch but, can be done and Im a big guy.
Dude, take some vacation in June and come drive the Power Tour with us.
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1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

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2003-2009, 2013
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Old February 16th, 2018, 01:03 PM
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Dave,
I just realized you are in the right neck of the woods to join us on the last 2-3 days of the Power Tour in June.
If you are not familiar with the Power Tour, look at my post in the Shows and Cruises forum, look at all the pictures in the Power Tour Gallery, do a Google search of Hot Rod Magazine Power Tour.
Then find the time and money to come have some fun.
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1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

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2003-2009, 2013
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