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  #1  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 04:52 PM
towncar95 towncar95 is offline
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Hybrid Town Car Conversion Cuts CO2, Costs

from 2011 anyone ever heard of this company

here is an article ................https://www.wired.com/2011/03/xl-hyb...car-conversion

here is their website today ............. https://www.xlfleet.com/
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Old October 24th, 2020, 09:02 AM
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Thank You for posting that towncar95 , I love the simplicity of it having the motor bolted to the differential housing , very clever .

And it's great to see a local company produces it , I live about 40 miles southwest of Somerville Massachusetts where the company is located .
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Old October 24th, 2020, 11:01 AM
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Hi Guys

HHmm! Allow me to translate their claims;
  • Reducing fuel usage by 15 - 30% = You might get 5% in the real world if you are lucky
  • Can pay for itself in 24 months = Will take 10 years to get your money back, maybe.
  • Increases HP by 20% = You will never notice this and prove it doesn't
  • Reduces emissions = Simply delays the inevitable that every drop of gas that we can possibly extract form the ground will be burnt
  • Battery charges at Level 1 in <12hrs = Battery will always be flat
  • Weighs only 350 - 400lbs = A shit ton of extra dead weight your gas engine will have to lug round


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Old October 24th, 2020, 11:45 AM
W.V. Kelly W.V. Kelly is offline
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I can't dispute Dereck's reality check. Each claim is like the glowing copy in the Summit Racing catalog "up to 15 horsepower increase". The number set represented by the phrase "up to" includes ZERO. Come to think of it that set includes negative numbers as well.

What it boils down to is having a gasoline engine turning a generator/alternator powering an electric motor. Unless each of these components is 100 percent efficient (they aren't) you're subtracting output power at every step. More steps = more power loss.

One realistic way to increase the efficiency is to run the least efficient component, the gasoline engine, at a near constant speed tuned for maximum efficiency with storage capability in the system between the engine and the motor.
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Old October 24th, 2020, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by W.V. Kelly View Post
....What it boils down to is having a gasoline engine turning a generator/alternator powering an electric motor. Unless each of these components is 100 percent efficient (they aren't) you're subtracting output power at every step. More steps = more power loss.....
This system , at least the Towncar system in the link , is far simpler than that . This has a lithium battery pack in the trunk that powers the 20 HP electric motor which is bolted to the rear differential housing and delivers its power to the driveshaft yoke via a belt drive . It doesn't appear to be designed to drive the car by itself , instead to relieve the car's engine of providing those 20 HP thereby freeing up a few MPG . In a situation where the car wasn't being driven beyond the range of the batteries ability to feed the motor between charges I guess it would work in saving a few MPG , being more of an "Electric assist" VS full on Hybrid .
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Old October 24th, 2020, 10:17 PM
W.V. Kelly W.V. Kelly is offline
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In this case, then, the battery charging is not provided by the engine but presumably an external source, possibly getting someone else to pay for it.
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Old October 25th, 2020, 08:54 AM
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In this case, then, the battery charging is not provided by the engine but presumably an external source, possibly getting someone else to pay for it.
W. V. Kelly

It appears they offer two different systems , the "XL plug in" and the "XL Hybrid" . The Hybrid charges it's battery with "Regenerative braking" and the plug in , well that should be fairly self explanatory .

Except , of course , for the "Possibly getting someone else to pay for it" part of your response , I believe THAT could use a bit of further explanation . Beyond secretly running a big ol extension cord to your neighbor's house I'm not too sure how your gonna get someone else to pay your monthly electric bill ? Or if perhaps you refer to government subsidies relating to "Energy credits" for electric cars , these so called "Energy Credits" have been offered for years on everything from "Energy Star" home appliances to upgraded double and triple pane windows , so I see no issue here with electric car owners getting the same government benefits for increasing their energy efficiency as their homeowner counterparts have enjoyed for years .

Eliminate ALL energy subsidies ? Sure , we can talk about that , because to be honest I'm not all that keen on the idea myself because yes indeed the "Government money" given out actually does belong to each and every one of us (or at least it USED to) . But offer the subsidies to SOME , but not ALL legitimate energy savers ? Sorry , now I'd have a big problem with that , as such a benefit applied to only a select few products / circumstances would surely appear as government collusion with the private companies offering the favored services . And thus , we have energy saving credits for electric cars . Is that any more or less "getting someone else to pay for it" than the tax credit I got on my new energy efficient furnace last year when I had it installed ?
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Old October 25th, 2020, 12:19 PM
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wow, good article, did not know this.
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Old October 25th, 2020, 03:35 PM
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A lot of work for nothing really BUT I think it's more about meeting certain jurisdiction requirements for hydbrid or whatever else they want.
Or you can say ALL our fleet is electric or hybrid.

It is officially hybrid even if it does nothing or little to nothing in real world BUT it lets "those people" rest easily that the car it OK.

This is probably why they did it.

Probably a little late but they might get rich with people who want to still run town cars (as they are the best livery car and limousines EVER) who can add this and maybe keep running them for a few more years.
The big cities and markets got rid of town cars a few years ago but MOST of the country still uses them or at least can for many more years.

Belt on driveshaft etc?? 20hp????

Maybe it only really kicks in at steady cruising speed where not much hp is really needed..(I only skimmed article. I can't take up valuable long-winded super long post time reading stuff!!!)
but 20hp isn't going to do much and I also see their spec and claims being less accurate that hp rating on lawn mowers? (remember the major class action suit over that?)

But if you can classify a Town Car as Hybrid, clean, green, earth friendly.....that could be a good thing.
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Old October 25th, 2020, 05:10 PM
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....Probably a little late but they might get rich with people who want to still run town cars (as they are the best livery car and limousines EVER) who can add this and maybe keep running them for a few more years.
The big cities and markets got rid of town cars a few years ago but MOST of the country still uses them or at least can for many more years.....
They weren't late in the least , the article on the Towncar system was published in 2011 , it discussed the "demise of the Panther platform" , and specifically mentioned eking a few more years out of the last ones being sold .
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Old October 27th, 2020, 09:19 PM
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They weren't late in the least , the article on the Towncar system was published in 2011 , it discussed the "demise of the Panther platform" , and specifically mentioned eking a few more years out of the last ones being sold .
Didn't look for a date and assumed that it was recent since someone posted it now.
That would have been a smart time and I think that was what it was all about and also being able to claim it was a hybrid so it's good, like a prius!

Perception is everything or at least a lot in the eyes of the govt and customers and "those" type of people I speak of.
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Old October 28th, 2020, 01:04 AM
towncar95 towncar95 is offline
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Perception is everything or at least a lot in the eyes of the govt and customers and "those" type of people I speak of.[/QUOTE]

toby what about the tornado fuel saver or the magnet one you put on the fuel line to realign the atoms ??
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Old October 28th, 2020, 06:13 AM
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toby what about the tornado fuel saver or the magnet one you put on the fuel line to realign the atoms ??

Snake Oil designed specifically to liberate cash from those who don't know any better ......
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