Another MarkVII KYB Question

[JoshMcMadMac]

I am thinking about replacing the shocks/struts. Hopefully I will get some more free time soon. I know that I have heard a lot of recommendations for the KYB GR-2 for the MarkVII. How much of a difference are we talking about here? I have about 125k on the car and I have no idea how old the suspension is. I know that the bags were never replaced, but I am not sure about the shocks/struts.

How hard is it to do this job? I am sure that it can't be as simple as the air ride; I think that is the only thing that I have done to this car that hasn't given me all kinds of hell! What special tools are needed? Also, is there any parts to replace other than the shocks/struts?

Is it really worth the extra cash to go with KYB and not just your plain-jane suspension? I'm not trying to sound like a tight-wad that is gonna just put junk on his car because it costs less, but the $60+ difference in price is a big deal to a broke college student. Thanks.

[pro-five-oh]

KYBs from shox.com aren't much more than standard Monroes from a parts store. I think I got them all for $230 including shipping. GR2s for the front, 5-ways for the back.

The change is pretty dramatic, it will be a good bit firmer. They will loosen up after 500 miles, but they still make your head jiggle on certain bumps. I have 10k on mine now, I'm quite happy with them. Makes me wish for Konis, though. [img]smile.gif[/img]

BTW: if you haven't swapped over to LSC bags, I'd also do that in the future.

[ January 05, 2004: Message edited by: pro-five-oh ]

[JoshMcMadMac]

Maybe I should have put this in the MarkVII forum. http://www.pickproparts.com has the GR-2 for less than $50 a strut, and a flat $5 shipping. The shocks are around $25, but I can get them from Summit for $17 I think.

How hard is it to do this job, and what (if any) special tools do I need? How long will it take?

[pro-five-oh]

I had my mechanic do it, as the car will need an alignment afterwards and breaking loose the spindle bolts is a PITA without air tools. That, and I'm lazy. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Any basic Chilton/Haynes manual gives the steps on Fox body strut/shock removal. Same for Fairmont, same for Mark VII. Just turn off the air suspension switch, of course.

[JoshMcMadMac]

I've got a Haynes, and I managed to get my hands on a Chilton too. I figured I better snatch one up while I can; I understand that Chilton sold out to Haynes. I'll give it a parusal later and see what I think.

[LSC SS]

i put kyb's all around in my white car, made a nice difference, much stiffer ride, took about 2 hours and that includes the time to keep my drink re-filled !!

Then again I have air tools and torches at the house, makes things go much easier !!

[ January 07, 2004: Message edited by: LSC SS ]

[Desert Stallion]

Josh, it's perty easy. Do yourself a favor and for the week or so before you plan on doing the job, put penetrating oil on the strut nuts. Also make sure you have a BIG flat blade screw driver that you can get good leverage with that fits in the slot on the front strut.

If you have an impact wrench it goes much faster, but can be done without one.

[JoshMcMadMac]

Thanks for the responses guys. Franco was kind enough to email me a copy of his '92 Helm's strut replacement info. Thanks a lot for that man. [img]smile.gif[/img]

And I do NOT have air tools. Hell, I don't even have a garage. But I never let that stop me. Just means that I wear gloves and a hat. It doesn't look like it will be too difficult. I have never played with struts before. Shocks I have done, struts I have not. I imagine I can take care of the rear shocks pretty easily.

The section that franco sent me references the replacement of an "upper mount assembly." What is this, and does it need replacing?

[pro-five-oh]

That is the upper strut mount. Its probably a good idea to replace them...they start squeaking and allow excessive movement after a while. Ditto the rear bushings on the squeak thing. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Michael VII LSC/SE]

OK Josh. Here are the things I had to learn to get the struts in.
1.) Like was said before start soaking your nuts with penetrating oil. They are torqued to 140 - 200 ft.-lbs
2.)I bought a 1/2" breaker bar and had a cheater pipe on hand to break the strut to spindle bolts. I think a 21 mm socket works. You'll need a wrench to hold the bolt. I had two jack stands.
3.) First, Try to break the strut nut loose on the strut mount. If you can't, find a shop that will hit it with their air gun. Finger tight will get you home.

The rest is pretty straight forward. But here's what I learned paying so many to "Adjust the toe and take your dough"

The original specs on the Mark VII show no caster and chamber adjustment. It is set at the factory. But some have learned to remove the rivit in the OEM strut mount and move it to change the camber. Save this adjustment for fine tuneing the camber/caster only. The proper adjustment for camber is at the two strut to spindle bolts. Here's what I did:

On level ground I set jack stands under the ends of the lower control arms and Aired the bags to ride height. I already had the strut mount back over the factory rivit hole and as far back as possible to increase the caster. I centered the steering and adjusted the spindle to 0'. You can use a bubble level, carpenters square or a dial angle indicator with magnetic base on the disc face. Thighten the strut spindle bolts then the strut to strut mount nut. I had new ball joints so I got close. This should get you close enough that a good alignement man can get you near perfect with a little tweaking of the strut mounts and toe.


I am hoping these guys will correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh!!
4.) Have plenty of hot coco on hand!

[JoshMcMadMac]

Thanks a lot Michael, that is a big help. I have a breaker bar and "cheater pipe", as well as jack stands. As for your alignment suggestions, I will get back to you when I get it back from the translators. j/k, but I had to read it a few times through, slowly, to make sure I understood you properly. My mechanic is less than 3 miles away, so it isn't gonna be that hard to get it aligned.

Unfortunately the online intersession class and the 40+ hour work weeks have run me out of time this time around. The suspension is gonna have to wait awhile longer now. Thanks again for all the help guys, hopefully I can just dig this tread back up in a few months when I get free time again. Helllllloooo, spring break!

[Desert Stallion]

Da' mod's got your back, yo.

Straight down wit it.

As far as changine caster/camber settings, there's a few ways to do it without actual CC plates, such as elongating the mounting holes on the struts, and removing the mount's pop-rivet and adjust the strut mount.

Personally, I'd just bite the bullet and install a set of MM caster/camber plates if you have any intentions of getting into suspension tweaking. They have lifetime warranties on the spherical bearings in case they ever fail, and the ride quality doesn't really degrade any, and the benefits, in my opinion, far outway the con's.

[JoshMcMadMac]

quote:Originally posted by Desert Stallion:
Personally, I'd just bite the bullet and install a set of MM caster/camber plates if you have any intentions of getting into suspension tweaking.

NOPE. If I wanted to tweak stuff I wouldn't be running those bags I got off of you. I am really not that concerned with cornering and the suspension tweaking. I like my ride the way it is, the LAST thing I need to do is complicate things with yet more stuff and another project. But I do appreciate the advice. Thanks again everybody, hopefully I can get this project tackled in the spring. Along with gaskets.