LincolnsOnLine.com


Home Forum Links Tech Rides Power Tour Gallery
Go Back   Lincolns OnLine Message Forum > Hot Rod Lincolns > Mark VII > Modified Mark VII
Register FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old February 9th, 2015, 07:46 PM
90LSC's Avatar
90LSC 90LSC is online now
Phantom Moderator
 
Join Date: September 11th, 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 4,011
90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold
3G Alternator swap....Armond style

Over the past few years I have been gathering parts for the 3G swap.
As we all know, the stocker is sufficient....and that's it. Ask more of it and you'll find it can't keep up.

I realize there is a Tech article already, but -no offense to Mr. LSC SS- I wanted a cleaner installation. I also wanted to use an alternator I could replace in Anywhere, USA.

SO, I started by scrounging an alternator bracket off a wrecked 87 Mustang GT convertable. I bead blasted it to get it back to presentable.
Down the road a few months I ran across a screaming deal on an uninstalled 3G Motorcraft for a 94-95 Mustang GT.
Both were stashed for future contingencies.
Both have been in my garage for about...oh...5 years. Yah, I procrastinate.
I did a little research, and found a badass fuse holder from JL Audio.
So....
Here you see the bracket, and how I made room for the 3G.

This weekend I did the swap. The actual swap was no big deal
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 100_4152.jpg (58.1 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4153.jpg (73.8 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4156.jpg (80.4 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4157.jpg (51.0 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4159.jpg (44.5 KB, 57 views)
__________________
1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

8 Time Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
2003-2009, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old February 9th, 2015, 07:56 PM
90LSC's Avatar
90LSC 90LSC is online now
Phantom Moderator
 
Join Date: September 11th, 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 4,011
90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold
Continued...

Here you see the bracket on the car, as well as the plug for the 3G (Ebay!)and the the spade(s) for adapting the 3G wires to the stock regulator plug.
I did not cut or splice the factory wiring. The two prong connector that plugs into the side of the stocker was camoflaged with black tape. The stock power wire lost it's crumbling rubber boot and received some shrink wrap (not pictured..sorry). You DO connect the stock power wire with the new power wire on the back of the alternator.

Also pictured is the copper lug from NAPA showing how I staked and shrink wrapped the line from the alt to the fuse.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 100_4162.jpg (59.5 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4163.jpg (30.4 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4168.jpg (48.9 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4169.jpg (39.8 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4170.jpg (47.4 KB, 51 views)
__________________
1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

8 Time Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
2003-2009, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 9th, 2015, 08:00 PM
gadget73's Avatar
gadget73 gadget73 is online now
Box Mod
 
Join Date: November 26th, 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 15,928
gadget73 has a reputation beyond reputegadget73 has a reputation beyond reputegadget73 has a reputation beyond reputegadget73 has a reputation beyond reputegadget73 has a reputation beyond reputegadget73 has a reputation beyond reputegadget73 has a reputation beyond reputegadget73 has a reputation beyond reputegadget73 has a reputation beyond reputegadget73 has a reputation beyond reputegadget73 has a reputation beyond repute
I like this idea. Having a custom-fitted alternator seems like a good way to be stuck somewhere. Any need for different belts if you change the bracket out ?

My stock alternator is still hanging in there, but when it dies I will not be replacing it with the same thing. I fixed it once, and I know the commutator is heavily worn. At some point its going to die, and a reman stocker is more expensive than the 130 amp unit is.

I would not be using both a new charge cable and the old one though. Fusing parallel feeds is near impossible to calculate properly. The stock one has to be fused for more than 100 amps, and the new cable would have to be fused about the same. Chances that both fuses will go at the same time is about nil. Its probably fused for effectively 250 amps o more since they are in parallel. Cars that came with that setup stock used a single 175 amp fuse.
__________________
86 Lincoln Town Car (Galactica), lots of mods

91 LSC SE, triple black, lots of miles

1984 Continental Turbo Diesel, lots of lunacy

Last edited by gadget73; February 9th, 2015 at 08:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old February 9th, 2015, 08:08 PM
90LSC's Avatar
90LSC 90LSC is online now
Phantom Moderator
 
Join Date: September 11th, 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 4,011
90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold
As a side note, DO NOT purchase the 3G swap kits from the ebay sellers. The length and fuse location may work for the Mustangers, but not for us. Or not for me.
I bought 9 ft of 4 gauge wire from NAPA. Someone else following this could get away with 7 ft.
I also got the afore mentioned fuse holder from JL Audio. The reason I bought it is because you can configure the orientation of the wire in/out. It is LOADS easier to put it somewhere. As you will see, I placed it where the regulator was.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 100_4149.jpg (52.0 KB, 56 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4150.jpg (68.0 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4151.jpg (53.0 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4173.jpg (56.1 KB, 60 views)
__________________
1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

8 Time Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
2003-2009, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 9th, 2015, 08:24 PM
90LSC's Avatar
90LSC 90LSC is online now
Phantom Moderator
 
Join Date: September 11th, 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 4,011
90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold
Pictured is the finished alternator.
Also a pic of the factory regulator plug with the 3G wires plugged in. It is as simple as plugging the A and the I wires into their respective places...both easily identified on the 3G plug and the old regulator plug.
Also pictured is the battery terminals from JL.
I've seen articles on the swap where the 4 gauge wire was ran over to the starter solenoid. While this may work, and evidently nobody is reporting issues, I could not do it. You are running your power to the solenoid, and then through a 10 gauge wire to the battery.
So I ran the 4 gauge directly to the battery....as it should be.
For reference in the last pic:
-Red is the factory hot wire
-Black is the new hot wire
-The lug goes to my sub/amp.

As you can see, I ran the new wire along the old. Not pictured (sorry, again), I ran and zip tied the new 4 gauge down along the stocker, in front of the oil pan with that bundle, and sneaked it uo to the fuse holder. I also ran a line from the alt to the fuse by running it straight down
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 100_4171.jpg (62.5 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4177.jpg (78.6 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4178.jpg (59.4 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4175.jpg (47.2 KB, 63 views)
__________________
1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

8 Time Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
2003-2009, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 9th, 2015, 08:42 PM
90LSC's Avatar
90LSC 90LSC is online now
Phantom Moderator
 
Join Date: September 11th, 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 4,011
90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
I like this idea. Having a custom-fitted alternator seems like a good way to be stuck somewhere. Any need for different belts if you change the bracket out ?

My stock alternator is still hanging in there, but when it dies I will not be replacing it with the same thing. I fixed it once, and I know the commutator is heavily worn. At some point its going to die, and a reman stocker is more expensive than the 130 amp unit is.


I would not be using both a new charge cable and the old one though. Fusing parallel feeds is near impossible to calculate properly. The stock one has to be fused for more than 100 amps, and the new cable would have to be fused about the same. Chances that both fuses will go at the same time is about nil. Its probably fused for effectively 250 amps o more since they are in parallel. Cars that came with that setup stock used a single 175 amp fuse.
This is the way 87-93 Mustangers have been fitting the 3G to their car for a long time.
The bracket was configured to accept a common alt. I can walk into any parts store in any city and ask for an alt for a 94 Mustang GT. Boom, done.

The belt....GLAD you asked.
I've deleted the Smog pump and short belted it.
The belt that is on it is still WELL within the limits pointed on the idler. It's about 2000 miles old and should not stretch any more.
I would like to think that the same would apply to someone with full accessories.

About the wiring....it's either do this or completely re-engineer the wiring between the alternator, the starter and the battery. Not for me.
Quite a few Mark VII types have done this with no issues. I don't expect any.
__________________
1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

8 Time Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
2003-2009, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 10th, 2015, 03:02 AM
floodking88 floodking88 is offline
Lincaholic
 
Join Date: November 5th, 2012
Location: Cen-Cali
Posts: 78
floodking88 is on a distinguished road
now i took the lazy way out and purcased a pa performance alt kit, which IS a custom fit (all you needed was a fox stang bracket and a 94 alt? i may do that when this one goes. or if i want more amps.) but i particularly like their adaptation of the wiring.

they give you the plug, and a fake V. regulator to keep the alt light functional. the reg. box accepts the stock plug, and besides the big 0 gauge wire going up around the radiator, it looks stock. and it will warn you when it goes out.

seriously. i had the chance to take a bracket out for free, that's all you needed? ugh..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 10th, 2015, 07:50 AM
90LSC's Avatar
90LSC 90LSC is online now
Phantom Moderator
 
Join Date: September 11th, 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 4,011
90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by floodking88 View Post
now i took the lazy way out and purcased a pa performance alt kit, which IS a custom fit (all you needed was a fox stang bracket and a 94 alt? i may do that when this one goes. or if i want more amps.) but i particularly like their adaptation of the wiring.

they give you the plug, and a fake V. regulator to keep the alt light functional. the reg. box accepts the stock plug, and besides the big 0 gauge wire going up around the radiator, it looks stock. and it will warn you when it goes out.

seriously. i had the chance to take a bracket out for free, that's all you needed? ugh..
I know a couple of guys running the PA alternator, and have no negative feedback. I also love the dummy regulator. But I got the bracket for dirt cheap, the alternator for $75. Gotta love it.
__________________
1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

8 Time Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
2003-2009, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 10th, 2015, 11:58 AM
Luckydog's Avatar
Luckydog Luckydog is offline
Lincaholic
 
Join Date: October 25th, 2012
Location: CT
Posts: 446
Luckydog is on a distinguished road
Nice write up and pics. This will sure come in handy at some point IM sure.Thanx
__________________
90 Mark VII LSC SE, 4.10 w/rebuilt carbon clutch trac-lok, SilverFox AOD SPt-1 stage 2 Valve body, Converted to MAF, o/r H pipe no converters, 2600 Stall Converter
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old February 10th, 2015, 12:11 PM
90LSC's Avatar
90LSC 90LSC is online now
Phantom Moderator
 
Join Date: September 11th, 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 4,011
90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold
It will likely become a Tech Article and have more text and pics.
__________________
1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

8 Time Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
2003-2009, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old February 10th, 2015, 12:52 PM
CDW6212R's Avatar
CDW6212R CDW6212R is offline
I can make it work.
 
Join Date: August 5th, 2009
Location: Knoxville, TN.
Posts: 1,216
CDW6212R is on a distinguished road
Well done Armond, I like that a lot.

I will revamp my whole car wiring soon, but I like seeing the ideas people come up with. The battery terminals I'm still not sure about though, the bolt on kind. Those you have are the best kind I've seen, but the pinched connections bug me.

BTW, I have that same battery I believe, new and ready to go in shortly, 53.5 pounds, a heavy monster. I wish we could get two pairs of terminals on a battery, to take care of amp wiring etc.
__________________
Don

91 Mark VII LSC SE 3.73's, with a 9.7:1 347 ready to go in soon.
98 Mountaineer project Saleen bumpers/wing
99 Explorer Limited SOHC A4WD old mail vehicle
72 Ranchero Sport

Kill the IRS, give us the Fair Tax
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old February 10th, 2015, 04:46 PM
90LSC's Avatar
90LSC 90LSC is online now
Phantom Moderator
 
Join Date: September 11th, 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 4,011
90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDW6212R View Post
Well done Armond, I like that a lot.

I will revamp my whole car wiring soon, but I like seeing the ideas people come up with. The battery terminals I'm still not sure about though, the bolt on kind. Those you have are the best kind I've seen, but the pinched connections bug me.

BTW, I have that same battery I believe, new and ready to go in shortly, 53.5 pounds, a heavy monster. I wish we could get two pairs of terminals on a battery, to take care of amp wiring etc.
Yup, it's one heavy sumbich.
The dual terminal battery would be nice.
I'm not too worried about the connections. For the next several times I take the car for a spin I will check the connections.
And...I have a pair of the correct allen heads in the console.
__________________
1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

8 Time Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
2003-2009, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old February 10th, 2015, 04:48 PM
90LSC's Avatar
90LSC 90LSC is online now
Phantom Moderator
 
Join Date: September 11th, 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 4,011
90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by floodking88 View Post
seriously. i had the chance to take a bracket out for free, that's all you needed? ugh..
I got mine when a friend had his 87 totaled for him.
Free!!!
__________________
1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

8 Time Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
2003-2009, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old August 31st, 2015, 09:03 PM
90LSC's Avatar
90LSC 90LSC is online now
Phantom Moderator
 
Join Date: September 11th, 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 4,011
90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold
To The Top!!
Just because.
__________________
1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

8 Time Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
2003-2009, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old August 31st, 2015, 10:40 PM
W.V. Kelly W.V. Kelly is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: June 27th, 2011
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 2,393
W.V. Kelly is a splendid one to beholdW.V. Kelly is a splendid one to beholdW.V. Kelly is a splendid one to beholdW.V. Kelly is a splendid one to beholdW.V. Kelly is a splendid one to beholdW.V. Kelly is a splendid one to beholdW.V. Kelly is a splendid one to behold
Armond, can you give us some ID* on that terminal in pic 4175? I'd like to try a couple of them on "Old Blue". They are brass, right?
W. V. Kelly

*and maybe a source?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old September 1st, 2015, 07:29 PM
90LSC's Avatar
90LSC 90LSC is online now
Phantom Moderator
 
Join Date: September 11th, 2000
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 4,011
90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold90LSC is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.V. Kelly View Post
Armond, can you give us some ID* on that terminal in pic 4175? I'd like to try a couple of them on "Old Blue". They are brass, right?
W. V. Kelly

*and maybe a source?
JL Audio, pn# XB-BTU
Some audio stores will have them, or find them on Amazon. They are freakin convenient.
__________________
1990 LSC-
347, GT-40 intake, AFR 165 Renegades, CompCams XE266HR
4R70W transmission, 3.73s
Black on Black.
I want more power!

8 Time Hot Rod Power Tour Long Hauler
2003-2009, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old September 1st, 2015, 07:37 PM
Botoole560's Avatar
Botoole560 Botoole560 is offline
Lincaholic
 
Join Date: August 20th, 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 767
Botoole560 is a jewel in the roughBotoole560 is a jewel in the roughBotoole560 is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90LSC View Post
JL Audio, pn# XB-BTU
Some audio stores will have them, or find them on Amazon. They are freakin convenient.
I've seen those at Wal-Mart and the like, if anyone must have one immediately. I've never used one, but that's got to be the best way to power extra components.

I usually just do the old tuck the stripped wire inside the factory battery terminal method, with intentions of switching to a nicer terminal like that, one day, but have never gotten around to it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:21 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


LincolnsOnLine.com is not affiliated with Ford Motor Company or
the Lincoln Motor Company. Unauthorized duplication strictly prohibited.



Copyright 1999-2018 LincolnsOnLine.com